If we think he killed people he dont like for religion reasons then its terror but if someone kills and targets women because of 100s or 1000s years of misogyny and misogyny culture then its nothing to see here just sad tragedy move on. In my mind both are either or both of ideologically motivated attacks or loony actions. Islam and other religions seen as problem in our secular countries because we can blame someone else but if our problems like lonelyness or mass consumption of porn violence and other misogyny cause trouble w edont want to touch it
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[News] Another stabbing in Sydney
- Thread starter BadFish
- Start date
Motogull
Todd Warrior
- Sep 16, 2005
- 10,489
With the first incident we had a terrible reminder of how serious a condition schizophrenia is. Despite the sad explanation, the plod brought about the best outcome overall.
This latest incident is no less disturbing. A 15 year old knifing a man of the cloth mid sermon is something new. I'm all for rehabilitation but I cannot see a way out for this one. I imagine he will see his days out in the Aussie equivalent of secure medical unit.
This latest incident is no less disturbing. A 15 year old knifing a man of the cloth mid sermon is something new. I'm all for rehabilitation but I cannot see a way out for this one. I imagine he will see his days out in the Aussie equivalent of secure medical unit.
cjd
Well-known member
No, far from it. Just a factual observation. It is what people ( plural ) do.
I agree. Same actions, different target type selected, same crime as far as I'm concerned.
Had both the recent sprees gone to court, the defense would push for 'diminished responsibility' and the prosecution would push for 'they knew what they were doing and did it by choice'. 'Terrorism' would be considered only at sentencing (whether to add a bit extra, or manage prison arrangements - not for purposes of 'mitigation')
I suspect the reason that a minority of schizophrenics and a minority of religious maniacs plan a killing spree is motivated by their primal desire to experience killing rather than a manifestation of schizophrenia or zeal.
Note that a case of schizophrenia where there is an impulse killing (a schizophrenia crisis) is different from a planned targeted spree and the former would certainly result in secure hospitalization.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The parents of Joel Cauchi admitted he‘d had a problem with females, and targetted them in the shopping mall.
Dad said something like;
You think of him of him as a murderer, to me he was a very sick boy who couldn’t get a girlfriend
Or words to the effect.
May have been mentioned before but good on the security guard who tried to intervene. Brave man who lost his life trying to save others.
A very sick boy, who was also a ****. No excuses.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
Yes both tragic and extremely disturbing. I’ve just been listening to the press conference by the local mosque which has received bomb threats who are very much of the view this was a radicalised Muslim attack.
As far as some suggestions above that these is given more ‘importance than an attack on women’ - The terrorism designation for this attack was not a performative gesture apparently - The NSW Premier said “We’re not trying to judge one crime over another with this particular designation. The reason it’s required is particular changes to the legislation to enhance police powers.” So not a designation based on a value judgment of motives of the two different attacks but to mobilise the correct police response apparently. This youth was also known to the police with a history of knife possession.
The excessive police response ( as a consequence of the terrorist designation) seems to have been triggered by the religious content of this attack - which also seems symptomatic of some really deeply disturbing increases in racial tensions in Westernised societies at the moment. I guess anything that can spark off retaliation and possible community breakdown has to be shut down immediately- I can’t help feeling these are ripple effects of what is happening in the Middle East - its dividing communities all over the World.
cjd
Well-known member
Lol...I appreciate your thoughts. Thankyou.I'm really enjoying the fact that we have been hearing quite a lot from you, on NSC, lately
Good news though, I shall be on holiday from tomorrow for 10 days, then back home to France and wandering around the Loire Valley for a week or two and finally, the whole of June wandering around Tuscany.
A lovely rest for the very worried moderators on here....bless their little cottons.....
I can hear the collective sigh of relief from Moderator Towers as I typeLol...I appreciate your thoughts. Thankyou.
Good news though, I shall be on holiday from tomorrow for 10 days, then back home to France and wandering around the Loire Valley for a week or two and finally, the whole of June wandering around Tuscany.
A lovely rest for the very worried moderators on here....bless their little cottons.....
I presume you are referring to the Islamophobic reaction to the latter case? Maybe. The question for me would be whether a ripple effect is simply something that always happens, or is increasing over time. You are not explicit on this point and I cannot guess from what you have written whether you think the ripple is same as it ever was, or has increased.
Not in an attempt to argue with you, simply to muse.....my feeling was that Islamophobia was at its peak immediately after 9.11. Even I looked at a colleague and pal of 15 years in a 'funny way' for a bit. In the intervening years the view that terrorist incidents are not reflective of the core of Islam itself has become more prominent. This perception has been facilitated by evident other forms of terrorist murder such as Brevik and other neoNazi types. Those who have a one-eyed view that only Islam is the problem are fewer, and increasingly restricted to the sort of type who throw bricks through windows of paediatricians, or rabble rouses via a right wing party (possibly one they have invented for themselves).
That's not to say that visible (and invisible) minorities are not vulnerable to hostility and even violence. To deal with that requires laws and education. My perception is both have improved hugely in 20 years.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
No I wasn’t - your post is completely off base.I presume you are referring to the Islamophobic reaction to the latter case? Maybe. The question for me would be whether a ripple effect is simply something that always happens, or is increasing over time. You are not explicit on this point and I cannot guess from what you have written whether you think the ripple is same as it ever was, or has increased.
Not in an attempt to argue with you, simply to muse.....my feeling was that Islamophobia was at its peak immediately after 9.11. Even I looked at a colleague and pal of 15 years in a 'funny way' for a bit. In the intervening years the view that terrorist incidents are not reflective of the core of Islam itself has become more prominent. This perception has been facilitated by evident other forms of terrorist murder such as Brevik and other neoNazi types. Those who have a one-eyed view that only Islam is the problem are fewer, and increasingly restricted to the sort of type who throw bricks through windows of paediatricians, or rabble rouses via a right wing party (possibly one they have invented for themselves).
That's not to say that visible (and invisible) minorities are not vulnerable to hostility and even violence. To deal with that requires laws and education. My perception is both have improved hugely in 20 years.
This was a racist attack by a radicalised Muslim according to the local police and the local Imans - the local Mosque has now received bomb threats according to the news updates and the police are appealing for the community to ‘come together’ and not make ‘revenge’ attacks. Sorry not really up for one of your, long in depth cerebral arguments today tbh - you make some fair points but about a a different issue entirely - racial tensions ie anti-semitic attacks, Islamophobic attacks have markedly increased since 7/10 in the West as a whole and we have seen communities at risk of being fragmented over racial and religious differences - the data backs that up. That was all I was referring to. It wasn’t any more complicated than that.
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I didn't know the 15 year old is a radicalized Muslim, so my speculation was indeed off base.
I am nevertheless interested in ripples and/or resonance. I would be interested in your thoughts on that sometime later, maybe?