[Help] ANOTHER Parking Advice Thread

[BensGrandad]

I parked in this bay earlier on this week to pop into the bank and only realised it was a disabled bay on my return. I don't park in town regularly but last time I did I'm certain it was a general parking bay

I have only lived in the area since 2001 and to the best of my knowledge it has never been a free for all parking area that I know of but could well be wrong.so will not argue if that is so.

 

[Blues Rock DJ]

Bugger. Thanks anyway all.

bang to rights.....

 

[British Bulldog]

They probably are not allowed to write "disabled" on the road any more as it not politically correct

Road markings are much easier, causes hell of a tailback every time I have to get out of my car to read a small sign on a wall.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Was at the back of the bay as you look at it in the picture, which is why I didn't clock the sign in the first place.

A bit of digging has revealed that The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 dictates that disabled bays do not need to be marked as such in the road.

Seems like a nice moneyspinner for the council, the whole road is free parking apart from that section and I bet I'm not the first person they've caught out!

Made the same mistake at Christmas. Lucky someone yelled at me across the road. So I moved on.

Clearly a trap.



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[Shropshire Seagull]

Where's Lady Gull she's our parking ticket SME

 

[BensGrandad]

Where's Lady Gull she's our parking ticket SME

I do no think that she is needed as the issue of the ticket in this area is very clear and happens a lot.

 

[LadySeagull]

I disagree. NOT 'bang to rights' and this isn't even a permit bay so why anyone posted about 'permit bays not needing words on the road' I have no idea!

The OP should post on pepipoo Council PCN forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Most council PCNs can be overturned.

 

[LadySeagull]

I disagree.

NOT 'bang to rights' and this isn't even a permit bay so why anyone posted about 'permit bays not needing words on the road' I have no idea!

The OP should post on pepipoo Council PCN forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Most council PCNs can be overturned.

My neighbour went shopping at a supermarket which had changed hand (co-op to Lidl). Unbeknownst to her, not only had the supermarket changed but also the car park rules. Every bay was now a 10 minutes loading bay and a week later a PCN dropped through her letterbox.

And that sounds like a scam private parking ticket, nothing like a real Council PCN and no-one with any sense pays them! Even Parliament sussed it's a scam industry last month.

 

[Surrey Seagull]

I disagree.

NOT 'bang to rights' and this isn't even a permit bay so why anyone posted about 'permit bays not needing words on the road' I have no idea!

The OP should post on pepipoo Council PCN forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Most council PCNs can be overturned.



And that sounds like a scam private parking ticket, nothing like a real Council PCN and no-one with any sense pays them! Even Parliament sussed it's a scam industry last month.

Yeah she's wrote a stern letter to the store manager demanding action.

 

[LadySeagull]

Good!

If it's Lidl with the parking firm Athena, then no appeal will get it cancelled but the CEO (Mr Hartnaegel) or Head Office of the Supermarket will cancel, just as Morrisons do all the time, with those pathetic ParkingEye 'you stayed 12 minutes too long' tickets.

 

[Argartu]

I disagree. NOT 'bang to rights' and this isn't even a permit bay so why anyone posted about 'permit bays not needing words on the road' I have no idea!

The OP should post on pepipoo Council PCN forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Most council PCNs can be overturned.

Wonderful news, thank you very much Lady Seadgull

 

[BensGrandad]

Purely for future information as that area of road is patrolled regularly and tickets issued by council traffic wardens. The signs attached to posts clearly state that parking is not permitted in that road and has yellow lines. So how can a ticket be overturned?

 

[Argartu]

Purely for future information as that area of road is patrolled regularly and tickets issued by council traffic wardens. The signs attached to posts clearly state that parking is not permitted in that road and has yellow lines. So how can a ticket be overturned?

The issue that I personally have is that all the bays on this road, with the exception of this one area, is 30m no-questions-asked free parking for all. As a previous poster has said, it's a trap for the unsuspecting motorist. The signage was wholly inadequate when it first went in, the council then put up the one you can see in my picture which is still easily missed.

 

[Surrey Seagull]

Good!

If it's Lidl with the parking firm Athena, then no appeal will get it cancelled but the CEO (Mr Hartnaegel) or Head Office of the Supermarket will cancel, just as Morrisons do all the time, with those pathetic ParkingEye 'you stayed 12 minutes too long' tickets.

Thanks for your insight LS, I'll pass on the info to my neighbour.

 

[LadySeagull]

Purely for future information as that area of road is patrolled regularly and tickets issued by council traffic wardens. The signs attached to posts clearly state that parking is not permitted in that road and has yellow lines. So how can a ticket be overturned?

Loads of reasons, and maybe 95% of real Council PCNs seen on pepipoo are won.

When an area is a cash cow and confusing, that supports the view that the markings might not be clear. Might not even comply with the Traffic Signs Manual which is prescriptive to the letter.

The fact that Council CEOs patrol an area doesn't mean they always issue PCNs correctly, nor that the signs & lines are correct, not that any appeal would necessarily be properly handled to the point that an adjudicator would agree that the Council did eveything right (IMHO that's rare!). Don't be fooled by a High Vis vest into thinking 'it must be legit'.

My gut feeling from previous experience is that this hybrid bay is quite possibly not compliant, albeit I could be wrong with that. I have not posted about Council tickets much for the past couple of years, I now concentrate on the private rogue and completely rotten industry and rescuing people from that scam, legal cases, POPLA appeal etc.

Normally from when I used to know this inside out, a couple of years back (at least when I last looked at the rules, and pepipoo posters will know):

- a disabled badge holders sign MUST be accompanied by the legend on the road 'DISABLED'

I thought that it can only be omitted where a village has block paving instead of tarmac (and only with special authorisation). Could be wrong.

The double yellows either side are not relevant, a bay is a bay, quite separate from DYL either side. And there is no double yellow or any line inside the bay.

If I am wrong about the bay markings not being supported by the Traffic Signs Manual variations (and pepipoo will know) other reasons for PCN cancellation are typically:

- wrong contravention code. As this is a shared use bay, it's possible the code might be wrong (IMHO Council CEOs are not well trained, in general, and if they are in doubt they will issue a PCN anyway and hope people just don't realise, and pay up). Pepipoo will want to know what the contravention code was and to see both side of the PCN to check the wording.

- wrong other detail on the PCN e.g. the Enforcement Authority might not be stated properly, the PCN might be printed so faded or overlapping that the fine can't be read, or the actual wording/small print might not be as prescribed under statute.

- procedural impropriety by the Council. Can include error or omission by the CEO, e.g. did they observe the car for at least 5 minutes on the PCN, to exclude exempt activity. Can also include later errors or omissions by the Council staff as they faff about trying to fob off appeals. Honestly, very common! I've won 'bang to rights' cases for relatives just due to a Council being useless at replying properly to detailed representations, with ungrammatical drivel coming back, ignoring some appeal points or not considering them (not allowed).

- Council not making out their case properly at adjudication stage.

All sorts of reasons.

Where an area is prone to LOTS of people slipping up you can be sure there is likely to be an error somewhere, & that an adjudicator will agree it is not properly signed (inc lines).

The issue that I personally have is that all the bays on this road, with the exception of this one area, is 30m no-questions-asked free parking for all. As a previous poster has said, it's a trap for the unsuspecting motorist. The signage was wholly inadequate when it first went in, the council then put up the one you can see in my picture which is still easily missed.

I agree.

The signs attached to posts clearly state that parking is not permitted in that road

Parking is permitted everywhere in that road, AFAIK (with caveats, but not prohibited).

No signs there that I saw in the GSView say parking is not permitted.

Not even Double yellows communicate 'no parking', you can certainly stop on them and all sorts of activity is allowed, but that;s another story and not what the OP was accused of.

 

[Surrey Seagull]

Speaking as a disabled driver, I don't think I've ever seen a disabled bay in the borough which didn't have the words DISABLED painted on the road.
With that being said, I've just found some. They've got posts with the disabled restriction signs on them.

 

[LadySeagull]

Exactly, nor me. I would be very surprised if this one is OK.

I would 100% appeal, but be aware that the first appeal is ALWAYS knocked back, because they are handled by private contractors at stage one, and they don't care/want the money.

 

[Surrey Seagull]

These parking bays are a bit odd, they have these weird studs (for want of a better word) with painted lines denoting the corners.

 

[BensGrandad]

On the bus to Brighton I noticed that the parking has changed I dont know when this happened but the signs are now showing 30 mins no return within 2 hours except for disabled. I am going to BH later today, as it is now and will check them out and report back.

 

[Aveacarlin']

Was at the back of the bay as you look at it in the picture, which is why I didn't clock the sign in the first place.

A bit of digging has revealed that The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 dictates that disabled bays do not need to be marked as such in the road.

Seems like a nice moneyspinner for the council, the whole road is free parking apart from that section and I bet I'm not the first person they've caught out!

The Regs have since been updated. Try TSRGD 2016

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