And now you're coming across as an idiot. I guess I should have twigged by your username.
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Andorra-v-England.
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
And now you're coming across as an idiot. I guess I should have twigged by your username.
Yay!
Another thread about how shit England are after they win.
Andorra but 10 men behind the ball and kicked lumps out of our players, If Owen was in the side (which he will be when fit) it would have been a larger win - it was only poor finishing that meant we didnt go ahead after about 40 seconds.
Untill our Media actually understand that our so called world beaters Terry Lampard etc are not really that much better than average on the world stage we will continue to heap pressure on the players.
Also if anyone doubts Capello is the right man the way he ripped into that fat waster Rooney should make it clear he is the right person in charge.
Another thread about how shit England are after they win.
Andorra but 10 men behind the ball and kicked lumps out of our players, If Owen was in the side (which he will be when fit) it would have been a larger win - it was only poor finishing that meant we didnt go ahead after about 40 seconds.
Untill our Media actually understand that our so called world beaters Terry Lampard etc are not really that much better than average on the world stage we will continue to heap pressure on the players.
Also if anyone doubts Capello is the right man the way he ripped into that fat waster Rooney should make it clear he is the right person in charge.
Romania got humped at home as well. Italy only won thanks to a goal with the last kick of the game.
Spain only beat Bosnia at home by 1 goal as well.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
As usual, its Martin Samuel who stands out with a BALANCED report on the Andorra game. f*** the tabloids and their sensationalist shit, THIS is proper reporting:
Barely discernible, there was the hint of a spring in the step of England’s players as they left the Olympic Stadium in Montjuic. You had to look for it. Perhaps you had to be there all those other times when the team departed the arena like men summoned to a distant relative’s funeral.
On Saturday it was different. They knew it had gone comparatively well. Not wonderfully, but with more positives than in previous matches. The tiniest green shoots of revival. Maybe this group could go to Zagreb and get a draw after all. Maybe.
Andorra are a useless team, though, and this was a useless fixture. There was no charm in the event, no romance, no thrill of David trying to bring down mighty Goliath. Andorra knew that they were going to lose; the only issue was by how many, so they attempted to destroy the game or, better still, to aggravate the opposition into impotent fury.
Their triumph remains the degree of humiliation that they can inflict before surrender and the last time England visited, that was quite a lot. It almost cost the head coach, Steve McClaren, his job. Even Fabio Capello, impervious to criticism right now, appeared uncomfortable as Andorra’s depressing negativity ate up precious scoring time. They played throughout like a team who had had three men sent off, clustered on the edge of their penalty area, clearing the ball long and reassembling for the next wave of attacks, the sole difference being that there were 11 blue shirts on the field. This made it hard for the only team trying to play football, with simply too much traffic between England’s players and the target.
When this happens, the game becomes a lottery, as the weekend’s results around Europe show. On a lucky day the chances go in and the gulf in class between the nations is properly represented (Liechtenstein 0, Germany 6); when unlucky, one team batter themselves senseless against a wall of resistance until finally it crumbles, but the scoreline does not reflect this and makes them appear foolish anyway (Serbia 2, Faeroe Isles 0). England had one of those days when the result did them a disservice. The exasperated expressions at half-time said it all, because to top professionals the challenge here is unique in its frustration. Even nonLeague opponents in an FA Cup tie – Havant & Waterlooville at Anfield last season – would have more ambition than this.
That did not stop an early contributor to the message boards in opining, sincerely, that Capello’s team should be winning matches against Andorra 14-0. Fortunately, the majority of those inside the ground demonstrated greater understanding. For the record, England have never won an international 14-0.
For Capello it was a nuisance to be endured and that much showed in his tension on the touchline, admonishing Wayne Rooney and Joe Cole for leaving Emile Heskey isolated in the second half. “Andorra played only to waste time, not to score goals,” the England manager said. “Going to Croatia is a difficult game, but it is more exciting. Games like this are not difficult, just dangerous. After 25 minutes I did not like this, because there is no challenge. Michel Platini, the Uefa president, is making changes in the Champions League, so maybe you should ask him and Sepp Blatter, of Fifa, whether they will change this also.”
Certainly, as Uefa membership becomes increasingly cumbersome with the rise of local nationalism and fragmentation in the East, there is a growing case for prequalifying rounds for the least able nations. What is the worth of a team who have no ambition to engage with the point of the sport and do not even play their home games within their borders?
“We are a very small country and we can only just kick around a bit,” Toni Lima, the Andorra defender, admitted, although there were 11 of those (Capello said nine, but he was probably being polite). “John Terry went down and I offered my hand to help him up, but he wouldn’t give me his. I told him we are not top players like him and we have to do what we can do, but he seemed upset about it.”
Terry may have been wondering what purpose this match was serving and he was not alone. The greatest shame is that the futility of the task makes the team with nothing to lose cynical and Andorra have a justified reputation as a nasty team, all sly fouls and play-acting. It was this behaviour that provoked Andrei Arshavin, the Russia forward, to kick Ildefons Lima, Toni’s brother, during the last qualifying match of the 2008 European Championship, having been cuffed around the head and fouled repeatedly.
Typically, Lima collapsed as if struck by a bullet, four Andorra players surrounded the referee and Arshavin was shown a red card, denying the finals one of its best players for two matches. It should not be Arshavin’s lot to be assaulted by amateurs and Platini should consider this the next time he is reforming European football.
So, as the game itself was a bust, what were the positives for England? Certainly the impact of Joe Cole – who should surely keep his place on Wednesday – and the sound partnership between Frank Lampard and Gareth Barry in central midfield. Theo Walcott burst into the game, then out of it, but he is a work in progress, while Heskey was a diligent second-half target man and will suffice until the manager regains faith in Michael Owen.
Glen Johnson and Stewart Downing were disappointing but neither is likely to feature against Croatia; apparently Capello’s logic was to sprinkle players who are fighting for a place in with his regulars to give the team energy as the opposition’s spoiling tactics caused momentum to be lost. The greatest impetus, however, came with the arrival as a half-time substitute of Cole, who has scored three goals in his past two games coming off the bench.
Credit is also due to the manager for his half-time changes. If Capello was truly the bullet-headed authoritarian of popular perception, he would not have been so swift to renege on his decision to install Jermain Defoe as his striker.
Capello will have known that withdrawing Defoe after 45 minutes, with the match goalless, would be seen as vindication for those who supported the inclusion of Owen – who was watching from home, no doubt with a large glass of Schadenfreude – but the manager did not compound an error by sticking with it in the hope of being proven right. The introduction of Heskey for Defoe, and Cole for Downing, perked up England’s movement and the game was soon won, Cole volleying the first at a set-piece and finishing adroitly from Rooney’s clever through-ball.
One of the advantages of a manager with a CV of such substance is that he is not interested in appearing clever; he won those battles long ago. Capello did what he thought was correct and, when it was not working, was bold enough to admit it and change. His reward was two goals in six minutes from Cole and three points. The serious challenge is on Wednesday, but Capello understands that, too. If England’s players are still smiling when they leave the Maksimir Stadium in Zagreb, Capello will successfully be through step one of a painful recovery process.
Barely discernible, there was the hint of a spring in the step of England’s players as they left the Olympic Stadium in Montjuic. You had to look for it. Perhaps you had to be there all those other times when the team departed the arena like men summoned to a distant relative’s funeral.
On Saturday it was different. They knew it had gone comparatively well. Not wonderfully, but with more positives than in previous matches. The tiniest green shoots of revival. Maybe this group could go to Zagreb and get a draw after all. Maybe.
Andorra are a useless team, though, and this was a useless fixture. There was no charm in the event, no romance, no thrill of David trying to bring down mighty Goliath. Andorra knew that they were going to lose; the only issue was by how many, so they attempted to destroy the game or, better still, to aggravate the opposition into impotent fury.
Their triumph remains the degree of humiliation that they can inflict before surrender and the last time England visited, that was quite a lot. It almost cost the head coach, Steve McClaren, his job. Even Fabio Capello, impervious to criticism right now, appeared uncomfortable as Andorra’s depressing negativity ate up precious scoring time. They played throughout like a team who had had three men sent off, clustered on the edge of their penalty area, clearing the ball long and reassembling for the next wave of attacks, the sole difference being that there were 11 blue shirts on the field. This made it hard for the only team trying to play football, with simply too much traffic between England’s players and the target.
When this happens, the game becomes a lottery, as the weekend’s results around Europe show. On a lucky day the chances go in and the gulf in class between the nations is properly represented (Liechtenstein 0, Germany 6); when unlucky, one team batter themselves senseless against a wall of resistance until finally it crumbles, but the scoreline does not reflect this and makes them appear foolish anyway (Serbia 2, Faeroe Isles 0). England had one of those days when the result did them a disservice. The exasperated expressions at half-time said it all, because to top professionals the challenge here is unique in its frustration. Even nonLeague opponents in an FA Cup tie – Havant & Waterlooville at Anfield last season – would have more ambition than this.
That did not stop an early contributor to the message boards in opining, sincerely, that Capello’s team should be winning matches against Andorra 14-0. Fortunately, the majority of those inside the ground demonstrated greater understanding. For the record, England have never won an international 14-0.
For Capello it was a nuisance to be endured and that much showed in his tension on the touchline, admonishing Wayne Rooney and Joe Cole for leaving Emile Heskey isolated in the second half. “Andorra played only to waste time, not to score goals,” the England manager said. “Going to Croatia is a difficult game, but it is more exciting. Games like this are not difficult, just dangerous. After 25 minutes I did not like this, because there is no challenge. Michel Platini, the Uefa president, is making changes in the Champions League, so maybe you should ask him and Sepp Blatter, of Fifa, whether they will change this also.”
Certainly, as Uefa membership becomes increasingly cumbersome with the rise of local nationalism and fragmentation in the East, there is a growing case for prequalifying rounds for the least able nations. What is the worth of a team who have no ambition to engage with the point of the sport and do not even play their home games within their borders?
“We are a very small country and we can only just kick around a bit,” Toni Lima, the Andorra defender, admitted, although there were 11 of those (Capello said nine, but he was probably being polite). “John Terry went down and I offered my hand to help him up, but he wouldn’t give me his. I told him we are not top players like him and we have to do what we can do, but he seemed upset about it.”
Terry may have been wondering what purpose this match was serving and he was not alone. The greatest shame is that the futility of the task makes the team with nothing to lose cynical and Andorra have a justified reputation as a nasty team, all sly fouls and play-acting. It was this behaviour that provoked Andrei Arshavin, the Russia forward, to kick Ildefons Lima, Toni’s brother, during the last qualifying match of the 2008 European Championship, having been cuffed around the head and fouled repeatedly.
Typically, Lima collapsed as if struck by a bullet, four Andorra players surrounded the referee and Arshavin was shown a red card, denying the finals one of its best players for two matches. It should not be Arshavin’s lot to be assaulted by amateurs and Platini should consider this the next time he is reforming European football.
So, as the game itself was a bust, what were the positives for England? Certainly the impact of Joe Cole – who should surely keep his place on Wednesday – and the sound partnership between Frank Lampard and Gareth Barry in central midfield. Theo Walcott burst into the game, then out of it, but he is a work in progress, while Heskey was a diligent second-half target man and will suffice until the manager regains faith in Michael Owen.
Glen Johnson and Stewart Downing were disappointing but neither is likely to feature against Croatia; apparently Capello’s logic was to sprinkle players who are fighting for a place in with his regulars to give the team energy as the opposition’s spoiling tactics caused momentum to be lost. The greatest impetus, however, came with the arrival as a half-time substitute of Cole, who has scored three goals in his past two games coming off the bench.
Credit is also due to the manager for his half-time changes. If Capello was truly the bullet-headed authoritarian of popular perception, he would not have been so swift to renege on his decision to install Jermain Defoe as his striker.
Capello will have known that withdrawing Defoe after 45 minutes, with the match goalless, would be seen as vindication for those who supported the inclusion of Owen – who was watching from home, no doubt with a large glass of Schadenfreude – but the manager did not compound an error by sticking with it in the hope of being proven right. The introduction of Heskey for Defoe, and Cole for Downing, perked up England’s movement and the game was soon won, Cole volleying the first at a set-piece and finishing adroitly from Rooney’s clever through-ball.
One of the advantages of a manager with a CV of such substance is that he is not interested in appearing clever; he won those battles long ago. Capello did what he thought was correct and, when it was not working, was bold enough to admit it and change. His reward was two goals in six minutes from Cole and three points. The serious challenge is on Wednesday, but Capello understands that, too. If England’s players are still smiling when they leave the Maksimir Stadium in Zagreb, Capello will successfully be through step one of a painful recovery process.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,270
I agree with the bulk of what Samuel has written, although I think he's being generous describing the Lampard / Barry partnership as sound.
At half-time we had failed to muster a shot on target. That is simply not good enough and shows that this team has not gelled and plays like total strangers.
The big decision for Wednesday is whether to start Walcott. Personally, I thought that the Czech game showed clearly that Beckham's only threat is from the dead ball; he so seldom gets into dangerous crossing positions in open play.
Joe Cole deserves a lot of credit and he is consistently one of England's best players. I can see why Cappello started with Downing - it was a gamble he could afford to take - but it failed.
It will also be interesting to see what happens if Michael Owen starts scoring in the Prem. We look a better side with Heskey, and they have a good understanding, so you wonder whether Rooney might get benched. He needs to show he can still score important goals for England because he's lost his way.
At half-time we had failed to muster a shot on target. That is simply not good enough and shows that this team has not gelled and plays like total strangers.
The big decision for Wednesday is whether to start Walcott. Personally, I thought that the Czech game showed clearly that Beckham's only threat is from the dead ball; he so seldom gets into dangerous crossing positions in open play.
Joe Cole deserves a lot of credit and he is consistently one of England's best players. I can see why Cappello started with Downing - it was a gamble he could afford to take - but it failed.
It will also be interesting to see what happens if Michael Owen starts scoring in the Prem. We look a better side with Heskey, and they have a good understanding, so you wonder whether Rooney might get benched. He needs to show he can still score important goals for England because he's lost his way.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
I take your point on the Barry / Lampard partnership, but then in a game like that, its hard to come away with ANY solid conclusions, because only one team were actually trying to play the game. I think its a midfield partnership thats worth another look, if its balanced with Joe Cole and Theo Walcott either side down the wings. As long as Beckhams on the bench, we won't be impotent in open play. And unlike Samuel, I actually think Johnson did alright as well.
Course, I'd rather Capello had tried this out in the friendlies than now, in the qualifiers. But despite it only being Andorra, I find myself marginally more optimistic about Wednesday than I was before the weekend.
Last edited:
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,270
I haven't got a problem with the Andorra perfomance or the result, but the stats show without Owen and Crouch the side doesn't have any regular goalscorers.
Rooney gets 1 in 3 for England, Lampard 2 in 9, Joe Cole and Steven Gerrard 1 in 5, Beckham 1 in 6. Heskey and Defoe between them have just 10 goals in 77 matches. Croatia have lost just 1 match in 40 in Zagreb.
The stats suggest Wednesday's match will be tough, and you have to wonder where the goals are going to come from.
Rooney gets 1 in 3 for England, Lampard 2 in 9, Joe Cole and Steven Gerrard 1 in 5, Beckham 1 in 6. Heskey and Defoe between them have just 10 goals in 77 matches. Croatia have lost just 1 match in 40 in Zagreb.
The stats suggest Wednesday's match will be tough, and you have to wonder where the goals are going to come from.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
There's clearly no obvious source for goals on Wednesday, but Joe Cole has been a fairly regular goalscorer for England, he's probably our biggest threat right now. I think everyone would happily take a point from that game, so our best bet will be to tough it out and try to nick something on the break. For that, we'll need pace in the side and an outlet down the flanks. Walcott is far from the finished article, but he could be key on Wednesday - he MUST start.
If the tattoo'd, clapped-out showpony starts on the right, then forget it. We are stuffed.
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
Saying Rooney gets 1 in 3 is misleading though isn't it. He hasn't scored for his last 12 games or so has he?
