[Albion] And out come the bed wetters... Back the team, back the manager, back the club FFS

[Worried Man Blues]

Southampton have been taking Premier league money for the last 8 years last night we were close, stupid circumstances took away a reasonable result, move on.

 

[neilbard]

Unfortunately, there are too many fixated on that stat, yes we need to change that. But let's look at the bigger picture. We are far better than 3 teams in this league if not 5 or 6 teams.
Southampton are a very good side and performing beyond their expectation that has not been seen for decades.

We will be okay.

In Potter we trust.

Name one manager with only one win at home all year not season that kept their job in the Premier League?

It would be interesting to know..

 

[zefarelly]

Which is interesting, because I partly posed the question as Saints are SUCH a similar club to us. Similar geography, similar stadium and crowd size, recent League One and Championship seasons and a reliance on production of good academy players. And yet they appear to have better players and a coach who knows how to get the best out of them.

It may be, of course, that you consider we are on a very similar trajectory but a year or two behind, given when we moved to the Amex and Tony took over in full.

Exactly this . . . Stains were close to the edge as are we, just a few years ago . . . It took Ralph Hofmeister a while to get going . . .

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Lets look at where we are at the moment. We have taken the decision to move from a more pragmatic manager, who specialised in defensive strength, bodies behind the ball, resolute periods of backs to the wall and goals scored from counter attacks and set pieces, to a new manager, who has a totally different ethos. It is about playing out from the back, trying to get the ball forward quickly. It is more fluid and easier on the eye. It relies on good movement, good passing, good first touches. It is played well by Man City, who have more skillful players. We are a second rate version of that but that doesn't mean we can't improve. We can but we keep having to find different players who can carry this out better. We create chances but we miss too many. We are a nearly side. Work in progress and thats why we are barely keeping out of trouble.
What we have sacrificed is defensive stability. In the desire to create a team of ball players, comfortable in possession and able to carry forward and release, we aren't getting it right at the back. Every team has to defend set pieces against big, powerful players at this level. It was never a problem before. We had a man mountain in Duffy and one of the best defensive strikers in Murray. Even Dale Stephens was physically strong in his own box. We now have a team of more lightweight players in this physically demanding league and we are getting bullied and beaten up at times.
We have to rethink defensively. We have to hope our captain regains his solidity and calmness ( missing at the moment ) We are not strong enough in the air. The manager has to keep looking at different CB combo's until we find more strength and balance. It isn't working at present and the manager has to put loyalty aside and find the right answer. We need another fullback. We may have to look at a bigger, more commanding keeper to restore some confidence at the back.
Lallana, Welbeck and Bissouma are class players. Maupay and Connolly aren't. We need another striker. Maybe Andone is the answer. Alzate looks talented but is largely ignored. He is direct and creative.
If we are not careful our current inability to quite get it right at either end of the field, will result in a season long struggle. We have matched a lot of teams this season but they have found ways to get round us. They spot our weakness at the back. They know we have a ' fade period ' second half, every game, where our energy levels drop and they push on. They know we waste chances and gain confidence as a result.
Its not huge changes. Its marginal gains. The difference between a nearly side, continuing to struggle and one capable of ruffling feathers, picking up surprise results and staying well out of trouble.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Which is interesting, because I partly posed the question as Saints are SUCH a similar club to us. Similar geography, similar stadium and crowd size, recent League One and Championship seasons and a reliance on production of good academy players. And yet they appear to have better players and a coach who knows how to get the best out of them.

It may be, of course, that you consider we are on a very similar trajectory but a year or two behind, given when we moved to the Amex and Tony took over in full.

We are a good deal more than 2 years behind.
Their academy had already produced Lallana,Gareth Bale, Theo Walcott before our project began.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Our club are doing brilliantly, be realistic. We’re still separated away from bottom 3. Ok we didn’t play well tonight. But we have an exciting young team, very talented coach and the best owner in the league.

We’re so close to making the next leap. Be patient.

Out comes the childish phrase again

The thread title if you’re confused.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Op, your sunny side up viewpoint is really nice but the fact is we don’t have many points and our home record is appalling. So The “ it’ll all be Ok in the end” argument isn’t good enough.
And no, I’m not saying sack the manager. I can see he has many attributes. But there is a lack of a certain knowhow.
I’d like to see specialist coaching recruitment.
Liam Rosenior for the defence and Bobby Zamora (he’s said he’s keen) for the forwards.
Unfortunately, our keeper’s weaknesses can’t be coached out of him. Sanchez should be brought back in, in the short term.

 

[zefarelly]

Your sunny side up optimism is really nice but the fact is we don’t have many points and our home record is appalling.
And no, I’m not saying sack the manager. I can see he has many attributes. But there is a lack of a certain knowhow.
I’d like to see specialist coaching recruitment.
Liam Rosenior for the defence and Bobby Zamora (he’s said he’s keen) for the forwards.
Unfortunately, our keeper’s weaknesses can’t be coached out of him. Sanchez should be brought back in, in the short term.

I agree Potter needs more nous/ecxperience on the coaching side . . .What is Bruno doing ? do we have a set play coach? a GK coach? its patently obvious we don't have a shooting coach!

 

[zamora the merrier]

Lets look at where we are at the moment. We have taken the decision to move from a more pragmatic manager, who specialised in defensive strength, bodies behind the ball, resolute periods of backs to the wall and goals scored from counter attacks and set pieces, to a new manager, who has a totally different ethos. It is about playing out from the back, trying to get the ball forward quickly. It is more fluid and easier on the eye. It relies on good movement, good passing, good first touches. It is played well by Man City, who have more skillful players. We are a second rate version of that but that doesn't mean we can't improve. We can but we keep having to find different players who can carry this out better. We create chances but we miss too many. We are a nearly side. Work in progress and thats why we are barely keeping out of trouble.
What we have sacrificed is defensive stability. In the desire to create a team of ball players, comfortable in possession and able to carry forward and release, we aren't getting it right at the back. Every team has to defend set pieces against big, powerful players at this level. It was never a problem before. We had a man mountain in Duffy and one of the best defensive strikers in Murray. Even Dale Stephens was physically strong in his own box. We now have a team of more lightweight players in this physically demanding league and we are getting bullied and beaten up at times.
We have to rethink defensively. We have to hope our captain regains his solidity and calmness ( missing at the moment ) We are not strong enough in the air. The manager has to keep looking at different CB combo's until we find more strength and balance. It isn't working at present and the manager has to put loyalty aside and find the right answer. We need another fullback. We may have to look at a bigger, more commanding keeper to restore some confidence at the back.
Lallana, Welbeck and Bissouma are class players. Maupay and Connolly aren't. We need another striker. Maybe Andone is the answer. Alzate looks talented but is largely ignored. He is direct and creative.
If we are not careful our current inability to quite get it right at either end of the field, will result in a season long struggle. We have matched a lot of teams this season but they have found ways to get round us. They spot our weakness at the back. They know we have a ' fade period ' second half, every game, where our energy levels drop and they push on. They know we waste chances and gain confidence as a result.
Its not huge changes. Its marginal gains. The difference between a nearly side, continuing to struggle and one capable of ruffling feathers, picking up surprise results and staying well out of trouble.

Largely agree with what is said here (except that Andone might be the answer!). Especially agree with Alzate - I don't see why he doesn't get more game time
Lots of diametrically opposed views on here and as ever the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. My concern re Potter is that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes/his teams mistakes.One thing you can do on a training ground is practice set pieces yet we continue to ship goals at one end and look unthreatening at the other

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Name one manager with only one win at home all year not season that kept their job in the Premier League?

It would be interesting to know..

I doubt there was one.
Name the last team with a home record as poor as ours who hadn't spent a single day in the bottom 3?
Palace failed to get relegated in either season which spanned the lowest points per game ratio in a calendar year for the whole of England.

The stat is an ananomaly as most outrageous stats are.


What would be interesting to know....
Who do you think would do a better job?


edit: PS you do know that a Season and a year should normally contain the same amount of games don't you? Why stress the diference between a year and a season?

 

[Moshe Gariani]

I’ll tell you I want, I want ‘adults’ to stop using that utterly pathetic phrase. I can’t be alone when I see it and just ignore the rest of the content from that post?

Bedwetters throwing their toys out of the pram now.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I support the manager but I am worried at his inability to sort our defence at set pieces, and inability to convert the corners we win into chances.

*yet*

Maybe this is the best Potter can be, but really a manager who can take a Swedish 4th division side to the latter stages of the europa league; a manager who can change around the playing style of a club and blood a load of youngsters all while staying up in the hardest league in the world; I have confidence that he can address and improve these issues also.

*plus, we haven't been that bad at defending corners for a while. That Vestergaard header was amazing.

 

[neilbard]

I honestly don't know.
I'm happy with Potter, I think he is a great fit for our club and will continue to get better.

Would Hasenhüttl guarantee improved home results?
This appears to be the burning issue at the moment
His record on that isn't particularly good.

Hasenhüttl

2018-19 joined club in December 2018: 5 home wins
2019-20 6 homes wins
2020-21 3 home wins

2018-19 Southampton finished in 16th position
2019-20 Southampton finished in 11th position
2020-21 Currently in 5th position


Potter
2019-20 5 home wins
2020-21 0 home wins

2019-20 Brighton finished in 15th
2020-21 Currently in 16th position

So not a lot in it, maybe?

At the moment Potter seems to be under no pressure.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

My concern re Potter is that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes/his teams mistakes.One thing you can do on a training ground is practice set pieces yet we continue to ship goals at one end and look unthreatening at the other

I don't see how that's possibly true, not learning from mistakes... We've been changing things around on the defensive side all season, it's been pretty clear...

The personnel in different zones on corners has changed, we've taken a deeper line for wider free kicks, noticed both those things last night. Attacking wise we're always changing, last night both Dunk and Webster got free on wide free kicks, absolutely gilt edged chances both put over the bar.

That wasn't our problem last night, it was just a our younger players not reaching the syahadat they've set in earlier games - White, Connolly, Lamptey - our tight passing not up to scratch at times and a few opportunities missed.

I thought it was a good game, two decent teams largely nullifying each other, trying to get the upper hand. My biggest frustration is how deep Bissouma and Gross get when we're in the lead and under pressure, it's seems to suck everyone back

 

[Uh_huh_him]

oh i agree, but when will we see this? its not a work in progress, this is team playing together for a while now and we arent seeing the results. we're seeing inconsistency, missed chances and failure to see out games. still waiting to hear what leap will turn this promising team into a delivering team.

This team playing together a while now?

Lamptey/White/Welbeck 30? games between them?
Delivering? yeah probably, too early to tell

Bissouma 60 albion games
Delivering? Hell yeah!

Webster/TrossardMaupay - 40 ish games each
delivering? - this one open to debate, but I would say yeah (licker obvs)


When you consider there was a 3 month long hiatus in this team's development, saying they've been together a while and should be delivering is a little disingenuous.
Judge them after 2 full seasons together

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Attacking wise we're always changing, last night both Dunk and Webster got free on wide free kicks, absolutely gilt edged chances both put over the bar.

That wasn't our problem last night, it was just a our younger players not reaching the standard they've set in earlier games - White, Connolly, Lamptey - our tight passing not up to scratch at times and a few opportunities missed.

[...] two decent teams largely nullifying each other, trying to get the upper hand.

Yes, off the top of my head, we had at least four very decent situations close to the NS goal towards the end of the match - Lamptey, Gross, Maupay and March involved...

A night when the fine margins went against us and we weren't able to get the better of strong opponents.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Your right no matter how bad the home form has been over the last year you still believe we are that close to being top ten . Need to wake up and look at facts on home form . March Gross good performances over three and a half seasons to far apart . Webster I just don’t see how he was better than Duffy but you keep writing the same stuff


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Christ. There is no need for a space before a full stop. Are you alfredmizen in disguise (again)?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Hasenhüttl

2018-19 joined club in December 2018: 5 home wins
2019-20 6 homes wins
2020-21 3 home wins

2018-19 Southampton finished in 16th position
2019-20 Southampton finished in 11th position
2020-21 Currently in 5th position


Potter
2019-20 5 home wins
2020-21 0 home wins

2019-20 Brighton finished in 15th
2020-21 Currently in 16th position

So not a lot in it, maybe?

At the moment Potter seems to be under no pressure.

I'm sure he is under pressure.
Premier League managers are always under pressure.

Do you think he should be sacked?

6 home games this season
Chelsea
United
Liverpool
West brom
Burnley
Saints

On current form, i would say that's realistically a tough 6 points at best, more likely 4/5
We have 3pts from those games.

Is that really sacking form for you?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I get that completely and agree 100%. However, if we have the same points per game ratio and home wins stats in May that we do now, why should the best owner in the division not consider who should be the head coach, considering Hughton got fired for similar stats?

Is the difference "performance"? Because, last night, in the second half, we looked like Hughton's second PL season team.

hmmm which half of the season are you talking about?

Maybe you didn't go to Bournemouth/Newcastle/Cardiff/Southampton
We looked absolutely nothing like that team.

 

[doogie004]

Sorry, genuinely not following your argument here.

In regards to the top ten stuff.
If you genuinely felt that was our aspiration for this season, then I get why you are disappointed.

I didn't think it was.
Tony and most good businessmen, tend to work in longer timescales than just one year/season.
Sure he will take a top ten finish if it comes along, but when he said this, he was challenging his management team to come up with a strategy over 5 years.
What do we need to do to get to our next target.

The plan they have xome up with is to deliver talent from the academy, supplemented in the short term with experience (on the cheap) to plug the obvious short term gaps.
They also needed a progressive coach who can handle the challenge of developing youth and managing the experienced players.

It may not work, but I can see what they are trying to achieve and for me, I can see season on season improvements.

Sorry but don’t follow yours either
Bloom said top ten not me
Over 5 years you say well this is season 4 and no change in position .
Tippy tappy might look better on the eye but same old result What season in season improvements are you seeing look at his home record it’s embarrassing ffs that not improvement that’s relegated material


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