An inconveniant truth for the Tree huggers?

[Papa Lazarou]

what an excellent contribution to the debate, now pipe down the grown ups are talking

It's quite amazing that someone can get to almost 12000 posts without posting anything of any worth...

 

[Robbie G]

what an excellent contribution to the debate, now pipe down the grown ups are talking

Slightly ironic statement. Then again, so is this post!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Global warming was just a bandwagon that everyone jumped on, either willingly or tricked.

It is a good tool to get people out and spending, or willing to pay higher prices and taxes, whereas the truth is that any saving made by people in the UK is immediately lost due to the expansion of the Chinese and Indian economies.

It has meant people after more likely to buy more energy efficient goods, such as washing machines, and light bulbs.

But there has also been a con by the Government to switch to things that we don't actually really need, such as digital tv, - if they were serious abvout saving energy / the environment etc, why force thousands of homes to switch to a system that uses upto 20 times more power than the current analogue system, and switch off the more "environemtally friendly alternative" apart from stimulating sales and the economy.

Incidents such as the flood in Lewes were completely blown out of context by the enviromental bridage, they occur in Lewes about every 30 years, and it was due to flood, and flooding elsewhere, which is as a result of building on flood plains, nothing more sinister.

If the environmentalists hadn't had such attention, then those new properties that lie on flood plains may have been built in better places, such as expansion of some villages, or by starting a new town / village from scratch. This would have also meant that housing supply would have increased more to meet demand better, and therefore we wouldn't have this mess with over inflated house prices and new first time buyers, etc could afford to get onto the property ladder.

I heard that the con of global warming was started to help sell the use of nuclear power to the public, using a scare tactic to get people to agree (which is still happening, a similar pattern is happening with the states and the use of a fear of terrorism to allow the Gov. to tax more and spend more, some say needlessly)

The truth may be more that the planet is now finally starting to run out of the resources that we have become used to, such as oil, coal and gas. and they are trying to either limit demand or to encourage the use of alternatives now, before we end up with an energy gap between actual supply and demand.

Alternatives that are supported are not neccessarily greener, such as Bio-fuel (which produces more carbon in production that Oil, yet is taxed lower and seen as an environmentally friendly alternative).

The lack of plane movement over the states after 9/11, when all flights were grounded showed that carbon emmissions may actually be lowering the planets temperature, rather than raising it, but reflecting more of the suns rays back into space.

We should try to preserve the resources we have on this planet, and not waste what there is, making it last for as long as we can, rather than wasting it on rubbish, as it can't easily be replaced, If peopel were serious about this, instead of taxing those things that are seen to damage the environment, ie petrol. Why not also tax items that needlessly have excess packaging, or disposable items, instead, moving back to long lasting goods (which the producers don't want as it means you don't buy their goods as often, limiting their own market and income / profits)

 

[User removed 4]

do you know that the big banks etc have already started muscling in on the EU emissions trading scheme? they have started trading companies surplus emissions allowances ?

 

[Curious Orange]

What annoys me is that the most frequently ignored FACT that is missing from these debates is that climate change happens irrespective of any human intervention. What needs to be assessed is to what extent we actually do influence it - and that really is very difficult.

I think everybody (pretty much) agrees that wasting stuff and clogging the atmosphere with smog is a bad thing, and something we should avoid, but we also need to accept that our planet is something that is constantly changing - its been doing for millennia, and it isn't going to stop just because we like things "as they are".

 

[Gully]

Bugger, I was hoping that the South of England would become the only place capable of growing the grapes needed for premium sparkling white wine (the stuff the French call Champagne)...thus making us home to the richest vineyards in the World.

 

[Trufflehound]

The lack of plane movement over the states after 9/11, when all flights were grounded showed that carbon emmissions may actually be lowering the planets temperature, rather than raising it, but reflecting more of the suns rays back into space.

It was the lack of vapour trails in the sky in those days which reduced "cloud cover" and increased the sun's penetration, and thus led to the sudden rise in temperatures - nothing whatsoever to do with CO2.

 

[lost in london]

Guy Fawkes I didn't bother reading all of your post as the beginning few paras were complete bollocks, but were you seriously trying to link increased house prices to environmentalists?

Why do people get so wound up with conspiracy theories, and invent these fantastically intricate webs which must exist within international governments and companies that solely exist to wring a few quid from some no-mark in Shitsville, TN.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It's hot today.

If it carries on getting hotter at the rate we've seen this week, we'll all be dead by Wednesday.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Guy Fawkes I didn't bother reading all of your post as the beginning few paras were complete bollocks, but were you seriously trying to link increased house prices to environmentalists?

Not directly blaming then, My point was that fears over damaging the landscape, environment etc, House building in new areas have been reduced / stopped, (by new areas i mean where there might not be a town / village already.) This has limited supply, and forced building in areas that are less suitable, such as flood plains. These then flood, causing everyone to blame global warming for the flood damage to property, rather than irresponsible planning.

Why do people get so wound up with conspiracy theories, and invent these fantastically intricate webs which must exist within international governments and companies that solely exist to wring a few quid from some no-mark in Shitsville, TN.

Equally, why do people believe without question, information that is pure speculation based on data that covers a minute period of the Earth's history can be used as an accurate model for all the Planets history, and fails to take notice of known variables in the planets history. eg, that sea levels were much higher than they are now when the Vikings landed on these shores, yet it is seen as the end of the World if sea levels were to rise nowadays.

All i say is don't believe speculation as fact, and question things. Here we have had a situation where anyone who dares to question anything must wrong, and they must be wound up by what others accept as fact. The truth is that there are two sides to everything, and base any decisions you make on a balanced arguement, not just by listening to one side of an arguement and then slamming everyone else who dares to question it.

 

[vegster]

Don't worry the "Biggie" bubbling under Yosemite park will sort us all out.. when that magma plume blows its going to get very very dark !

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Equally, why do people believe without question, information that is pure speculation based on data that covers a minute period of the Earth's history can be used as an accurate model for all the Planets history, and fails to take notice of known variables in the planets history. eg, that sea levels were much higher than they are now when the Vikings landed on these shores, yet it is seen as the end of the World if sea levels were to rise nowadays.

All i say is don't believe speculation as fact, and question things. Here we have had a situation where anyone who dares to question anything must wrong, and they must be wound up by what others accept as fact. The truth is that there are two sides to everything, and base any decisions you make on a balanced arguement, not just by listening to one side of an arguement and then slamming everyone else who dares to question it.

I would suggest that 'tree huggers' face much more derision than those that either do not believe or can't be bothered with the climate change theories. Obviously it works both ways, but the general feeling is that people who are willing to 'go green' are seen as odd/hippies/naive (delete as applicable).

I can think of many negatives if we ignore this potential period of uncertainty for the climate, but I am struggling to think of any negatives when it comes to acting upon it. Are there any?

There are far too many lazy people who are not willing to do anything to negate our negative impact on the planet. Too much effort for some people.

Maybe we are not having such an impact on the climate, but why leave it to chance?

 

[readingstockport]

I have heard that all the climate change models have "Gone wrong", all of em including NASA'a. Well the ones based on global warming due to Carbon, the ones based on solar cycles predictions are holding up over the last year or so. The Tree huggers are calling it a blip.

Anyone else heard about this or can elaborate? My source is reliable but I think its worth throwing up for debate.



The Solar cycles models predict 8 years of cooling.

you've HEARD.

You hear f***ing voices all the time you thick ****. Why on earth are you paying any more attention to these voices than you do to all the other bollocks you, and your voices, come out with?

 

[readingstockport]

As I said, nobody is disputing the fact that global temperature have risen, some people are still not convinced on the cause, or in fact the degree of effect.

The process by which CO2 causing warming is agreed by most, so maybe the point is, how much of the rise we saw last century is down to CO2, how much is down to solar cycle and sun spot activity or perhaps some other driver (surface albedo, cloud cover etc).

Which data set does that graph represent, Hadley, GISS, NOAA?

Papa

99% of climatologists are convinced. The only people who remain unconvinced are in the main right wing idiots who have as much grasp of science as I have of Keira Knightley.

All reputable scientists acknowledge the c.limate is changing and the VAST majority of them say that man is influencing that. It is now only idiots and the uneducated who stand against that view quite frankly.

 

[cannedheat]

you've HEARD.

You hear f***ing voices all the time you thick ****. Why on earth are you paying any more attention to these voices than you do to all the other bollocks you, and your voices, come out with?

tut tut tut, try Prozac.

 

[twickers]

I wish I could elaborate but it just came from an old friend from uni who spoke spoke to someone in their Environmental Science Dept.

I'm no tree hugger, indeed parting with my V6 petrol drinker was a terrible blow, but 'someone in their Environmental Science Dept.' Have you been to Uni and stared a lecturer in the whites of their eyes? I'll give you a clue, they ain't white.

 

[Fungus]

Don't worry the "Biggie" bubbling under Yosemite park will sort us all out.. when that magma plume blows its going to get very very dark !

I think you mean the "Biggie" bubbling under *Yellowstone*, which is WAY overdue! No reason to ignore the everyday things, though.

 

[Questions]

Lets all leave our fridge doors open tomorrow.

That will lower the temperature and help global warming........

 

[steward 433]

Lets all leave our fridge doors open tomorrow.

That will lower the temperature and help global warming........

Aircon on reverse in the winter