An Apology to Gus Poyet

[Justice]

Naive? What are you on? Oh shit! I have bitten, haven't I,

Still don't know what your banging on about.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Thank you Alex. I think that explains every thing for those that are prepared to understand.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Still don't know what your banging on about.

You know very well I am not banging on about anything. Back under your bridge son.

 

[jimbob5]

Yeah I see where you are coming from. Be honest though, they were all a punt. I can't get Newcastle and West Ham out of my mind. It's not the same but I wonder if Tony thinks it is? Let's face it, he is the only one that matters.

West Ham and Newcastle have proven managers. Not ALWAYS totally successful but who is? SH has not got a good history of management and seems to actually be getting worse! Brighton are not going to do a Newcastle or West ham this year, in fact if they were, they'd have done it by now obviously!

 

[JBizzle]

"Took us apart?"

No, we were great, we were unlucky, they didn't deserve to win, Gus got it bang on etc etc?... Yes, they took us apart. The second leg, we were very poor and Holloway adjusted his tactics from the first leg to beat us in the second. We were tired and Gus didn't adapt accordingly.

Just because this thread is a Gus love-in (which to a degree, I'm on board with), doesn't mean I should pop on the rose-tinted glasses for this one.

 

[Justice]

You know very well I am not banging on about anything. Back under your bridge son.

Nope not really

 

[spring hall convert]

No, we were great, we were unlucky, they didn't deserve to win, Gus got it bang on etc etc?... Yes, they took us apart. The second leg, we were very poor and Holloway adjusted his tactics from the first leg to beat us in the second. We were tired and Gus didn't adapt accordingly.

Just because this thread is a Gus love-in (which to a degree, I'm on board with), doesn't mean I should pop on the rose-tinted glasses for this one.

No one took anyone apart. Barnes scores that header, we likely hang on.

I shudder to think what you'd make of a game where we really did get taken apart. You know, really spanked, like West Ham away in our first season back in the Championship.

 

[JBizzle]

No one took anyone apart. Barnes scores that header, we likely hang on.

I shudder to think what you'd make of a game where we really did get taken apart. You know, really spanked, like West Ham away in our first season back in the Championship.

Look, I agree, there have been much worse performances. and yes if Barnes had scored, if we'd taken our chances in the first leg, if, if, if... The big if is if Gus had got it tactically right, which he didn't.

I'm probably overstating it a bit as "taken apart", but we were roundly beaten by Palace quite comfortably in the end. Taken apart? That was Derby last year.

 

[rippleman]

Some day Gus will write his memoirs and we'll then find out the truth behind his sacking. In the light of subsequent events I suspect the story of his dismissal will elevate him to legend status in perpetuity.

 

[spring hall convert]

Taken apart? That was Derby last year.

Or the first half hour the other week!

 

[jimbob5]

Some day Gus will write his memoirs and we'll then find out the truth behind his sacking. In the light of subsequent events I suspect the story of his dismissal will elevate him to legend status in perpetuity.

He'll do a few jobs with moderate success and fade away into something else in 10 years or so like many others. He probably won't write a book because there would not be sufficient interest.

 

[JBizzle]

Or the first half hour the other week!

Or just any time we play Derby!

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I don't think so; the text below is from my ACAS guide.
“Gross misconduct” is conduct so serious as to justify dismissal without notice or payment in lieu of notice. There is no statutory definition of what constitutes gross misconduct and to a certain extent it is for employers to decide whether misconduct is to be considered as "gross", "serious" or otherwise. In determining what amounts to "gross" misconduct, context is paramount. What amounts to gross misconduct should be considered in relation to the business and the role of the employee. An employer may consider an instance of misconduct to be serious, but is it "gross" misconduct? Employers should ask themselves – is the conduct so serious and damaging to the business that it breaks the employment relationship between employer and employee? Does it make a continued working relationship and trust impossible? Was it a deliberate and wilful breach of the contract and/or does the conduct amount to gross negligence?

Acas provides a non-exhaustive list of what will usually be considered to be gross misconduct:
Theft
Dishonesty
Malicious damage
Fighting/assaulting another person
Serious incapability through alcohol or illegal drugs
Endangering the safety of others by breaching Health and Safety Laws
Fraud
Gross negligence
Serious insubordination

That last one covers a range of possibilities, doesn't it?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Or just any time we play Derby!

Look at sir Albion's post & note that when Poyet was in charge, we took 6 points off of them.

 

[symyjym]

I don't think so; the text below is from my ACAS guide.
“Gross misconduct” is conduct so serious as to justify dismissal without notice or payment in lieu of notice. There is no statutory definition of what constitutes gross misconduct and to a certain extent it is for employers to decide whether misconduct is to be considered as "gross", "serious" or otherwise. In determining what amounts to "gross" misconduct, context is paramount. What amounts to gross misconduct should be considered in relation to the business and the role of the employee. An employer may consider an instance of misconduct to be serious, but is it "gross" misconduct? Employers should ask themselves – is the conduct so serious and damaging to the business that it breaks the employment relationship between employer and employee? Does it make a continued working relationship and trust impossible? Was it a deliberate and wilful breach of the contract and/or does the conduct amount to gross negligence?

Acas provides a non-exhaustive list of what will usually be considered to be gross misconduct:
Theft
Dishonesty
Malicious damage
Fighting/assaulting another person
Serious incapability through alcohol or illegal drugs
Endangering the safety of others by breaching Health and Safety Laws
Fraud
Gross negligence
Serious insubordination

I know this, but something as simple as threatening to leave if he didn't get his way could bring about a breakdown in the working relationship, or speaking to other employees about taking them with him to his next job would be considered dishonest and a gross misconduct. There is a wide spectrum gross misconducts and some are a lot worse than others. I mean when does insubordination become serious insubordination, or negligence become gross negligence?

Poyet said on live TV, that the gross misconduct sounded a lot worse than it was. Out of the list you gave me I doubt it was Theft, Malicious damage, Fighting/assaulting another person, Serious incapability through alcohol or illegal drugs, Endangering the safety of others by breaching Health and Safety Laws or Fraud are very serious accusations.

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

Look at sir Albion's post & note that when Poyet was in charge, we took 6 points off of them.

Pre Mcclaren wasn't it..

For what it's worth, Poyet owes me an apology. If he had put the club before himself in that 2nd leg we might well be sitting in a polar opposite position to our friends up the road. Instead, what happened happened and the consequences of his actions (or inaction) are intrinsically linked to the utter mess we are in now and the huge disparities in success, financial resources and short term future.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Pre Mcclaren wasn't it..

For what it's worth, Poyet owes me an apology. If he had put the club before himself in that 2nd leg we might well be sitting in a polar opposite position to our friends up the road. Instead, what happened happened and the consequences of his actions (or inaction) are intrinsically linked to the utter mess we are in now and the huge disparities in success, financial resources and short term future.

Isn't it about time this utter nonsense about the semi-final second leg was laid to rest once and for all? Poyet sent on an attacking substitute (Barnes) who nearly won it for us with a shot that Speroni somehow deflected onto the crossbar and a header that was cleared off the line. Wayne Bridge dozed off at the far post to let Zaha get in front of him for the decisive goal.

 

[El Presidente]

Isn't it about time this utter nonsense about the semi-final second leg was laid to rest once and for all? Poyet sent on an attacking substitute (Barnes) who nearly won it for us with a shot that Speroni somehow deflected onto the crossbar and a header that was cleared off the line. Wayne Bridge dozed off at the far post to let Zaha get in front of him for the decisive goal.

You and your pesky FACTS

 

[Mellotron]

The idea that Poyet DIDN'T want to win the 2nd leg is up there with "OLMYPICS ARE ILLUMINATI" conspiracy theories. You have no idea how stupid you sound. Stop.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I know this, but something as simple as threatening to leave if he didn't get his way could bring about a breakdown in the working relationship, or speaking to other employees about taking them with him to his next job would be considered dishonest and a gross misconduct. There is a wide spectrum gross misconducts and some are a lot worse than others. I mean when does insubordination become serious insubordination, or negligence become gross negligence?

Poyet said on live TV, that the gross misconduct sounded a lot worse than it was. Out of the list you gave me I doubt it was Theft, Malicious damage, Fighting/assaulting another person, Serious incapability through alcohol or illegal drugs, Endangering the safety of others by breaching Health and Safety Laws or Fraud are very serious accusations.

Gross misconduct is defined as behaviour, on the part of an employee, which is so bad that it destroys the employer/employee relationship, and merits instant dismissal without notice or pay in lieu of notice. Not a breakdown in the working relationship but an action or actions that destroys it.
However, instant dismissal is a very severe penalty, and if the employee goes to an Employment Tribunal, the employer would have to show that the offence was so wrong that instant dismissal was an appropriate sanction.
They would also have to be able to demonstrate that the decision:
1) Would be one that a reasonable employer would have made.
2) Was itself both fair and reasonable in the circumstances.