[Albion] Amex expansion.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

From 8,800 at Withdean, to 30,750 to 32,000 is amazing in the big picture.

Stadium adjustments are incredibly expensive for TB (he's still having to pump money in).

First let's see if we stay up and manage to become a consistent midtable club. If they achieve that and the season ticket list remains huge, perhaps it will be looked at again in a few years time?

Remember that BHCC obsess with sustainable transport capability at Falmer.

Absolutely, it's an incredible story when you think about it. It's just a shame that with 8000 on the season ticket waiting list the stadium can't be significantly enlarged to accommodate the demand. But no-one could have forecast our growth.
In an ideal world the north would be bigger to have more of an "end." But overall 32,000 very other week is very good and IF we do go down ( I don't think we will) attendances would almost certainly drop below 30, 000. As Barber often says, better to have a full stadium than 1000's of empty seats.

 

[Weststander]

But at no point has it ever passed that windfall on the fans.

Sure they have no reason to while losing £30m a year.

But that then makes me wonder what they were expecting with the initial projections.

We double the crowd and yet still lose the very most amount not money allowed to be lost.

I’ve thought about that many times.

The original plan was a £90m stadium, an interest free loan from TB and budgeted crowds of 16,000 including premium income from the large 1901 club/exec boxes.

My guess would be that player wages including as a Championship promotion chasing club have far exceeded expectations in the game, compared to when TB/DK created that business plan in the mid noughties. The accounts of Championship and several PL clubs demonstrate that.

It’s sink or swim. To do an Ipswich and budget more sensibly, means selling your best two players every summer, and flitting between Championship/League One. Which doesn’t fit in with TB’s ambitions for the club. He’s possibly a billionaire from property and gambling, and seems willing to subsidise the losses.

 

[Stat Brother]

I’ve thought about that many times.

The original plan was a £90m stadium, an interest free loan from TB and budgeted crowds of 16,000 including premium income from the large 1901 club/exec boxes.

My guess would be that player wages including as a Championship promotion chasing club have far exceeded expectations in the game, compared to when TB/DK created that business plan in the mid noughties. The accounts of Championship and several PL clubs demonstrate that.

It’s sink or swim. To do an Ipswich and budget more sensibly, means selling your best two players every summer, and flitting between Championship/League One. Which doesn’t fit in with TB’s ambitions for the club. He’s possibly a billionaire from property and gambling, and seems willing to subsidise the losses.

Yeah sure.

I need to be careful here because I AM NOT MOANING, but there was a massive disconnect between what the club told us they expected and what it then proceeded to do.

Not even during the dark times, but right through to opening and the entirety of that first season as The Albion 1.2.

To say 'we' stepped up would be an understatement.

Far far more people than budgeted jumped on the bus.

We all bought the shirts.
We drank all the Harvey's
Ate everything that was encased in pastry.

I know the easy answer is 'well the margins aren't great' on the above.
But still a large percentage over and above a 'not great margin' is still free money.

Yet Mr Bloom still lost millions from his bank account.


Just how much was he expecting to lose if we were a bit nonchalant about Association Football, and the club's fans needed a 'rebuild' as well?

 

[Creaky]

Don’t mind that, a good question. Because it may give more people the chance to buy a ST, through the food chain allowing more youngsters a chance to get the Albion bug, in the long term revenue will more than pay the capital cost back making profitability more likely and once we have a team/results to deliver wins, perhaps the atmosphere will be that much louder with more home fans.

I’m not demanding we have 40,000. Just a bystander, very pleased that TB looks at the stadium and seeks to increase capacity.

Yes, I accept all those arguments, although they are obviously dependent on demand. I especially like the idea of more and more youngsters getting the Albion bug - that doesn’t appear to be a priority though considering the recent splitting of the family stand and the choice of location.

What I haven’t seen mentioned are the potential downside to increasing capacity.

Towns and villages often increase in size without an equivalent increase in infrastructure to the detriment of the initial population. Isn’t there a danger of that happening at the Amex?

For instance we have seen what has happened at the Mill Road P&R - in the early Amex seasons arriving at the P&R an hour or so before kick off meant getting a parking space, this increased to about 90 minutes when the East Stand Upper opened and since being in the Premier League you are lucky to get a space if you arrive 2 hours before kick off.

I don’t have experience of travelling by rail to the ground so maybe that hasn’t been affected.

Then there are the shop and concourses and the queues for Dick’s bar. The basic infrastructure of matchday.

What happens if demand falls for whatever reason? The overhead costs of the additional capacity will still be there including the original capital cost and I’m not sure that the additional empty seats would improve the atmosphere.

Of course a planning application isn’t a commitment and is a sensible move whilst demand is high and will help TB make the final decision at the appropriate time.

 

[Stat Brother]

Yes, I accept all those arguments, although they are obviously dependent on demand. I especially like the idea of more and more youngsters getting the Albion bug - that doesn’t appear to be a priority though considering the recent splitting of the family stand and the choice of location.

What I haven’t seen mentioned are the potential downside to increasing capacity.

Towns and villages often increase in size without an equivalent increase in infrastructure to the detriment of the initial population. Isn’t there a danger of that happening at the Amex?

For instance we have seen what has happened at the Mill Road P&R - in the early Amex seasons arriving at the P&R an hour or so before kick off meant getting a parking space, this increased to about 90 minutes when the East Stand Upper opened and since being in the Premier League you are lucky to get a space if you arrive 2 hours before kick off.

I don’t have experience of travelling by rail to the ground so maybe that hasn’t been affected.

Then there are the shop and concourses and the queues for Dick’s bar. The basic infrastructure of matchday.

What happens if demand falls for whatever reason? The overhead costs of the additional capacity will still be there including the original capital cost and I’m not sure that the additional empty seats would improve the atmosphere.

Of course a planning application isn’t a commitment and is a sensible move whilst demand is high and will help TB make the final decision at the appropriate time.

FFS get off the fence, are you saying:-

MONORAIL

or

WATERSLIDE?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's just a shame that with 8000 on the season ticket waiting list the stadium can't be significantly enlarged to accommodate the demand.

Has been pointed out many times before that the size of the current ST waiting list is purely PL-driven. A Half ST was freely available to purchase going into 2017 which would guarantee the purchaser a full ST in the season to follow. There WAS no waiting list at that point. And doubt there would be much of a waiting list left either, were the club to lose their PL status. Club would do well to acknowledge the transitory nature of that waiting list IMHO

 

[maltaseagull]

Always good idea to remember at previous fans meetings with Paul Barber and Tony Bloom they have always stated that the structure of the Amex cannot be compromised and therefore additional seats would only be in the low hundreds. Having said that you can bet your boots they have teams trying to increase capacity at a worthwhile effective cost. Maybe they believe as all the speculation on this thread has pinpointed that reconfiguration of different stands and additional corporate boxes will increase revenue and seat capacity and everyone wins, the club are always looking to accommodate more season ticket holders with 8k on a waiting list and supporters loving the fact we are growing as a club in size and stature.

If every fan lost some weight, the club could put in smaller seats and add to the capacity that way.

 

[el punal]

But at no point has it ever passed that windfall on the fans.

Sure they have no reason to while losing £30m a year.
A
But that then makes me wonder what they were expecting with the initial projections.

We double the crowd and yet still lose the very most amount of money allowed to be lost.

Progress innit? 2011 is a long, long time ago. Hopes and expectations have been met but at a cost - probably justifiably. We are in the Premier League and who would have thought that ten years ago. Referring to your point about the lost amount of money - Alan Sugar once said (roughly) “You won’t make money buying a football club.”

 

[B.W.]

35,000 is MINIMUM requirement for the alleged mid-table prem strategy IMHO...

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

If every fan lost some weight, the club could put in smaller seats and add to the capacity that way.

Or perhaps a Seat Share Scheme whereby those on the waiting list - subject to a small admin charge obviously - would be granted access to the principal seat-holder's, er, seat, while the holder nipped out to the loo, went to get the beers in, or just left early

#TeamSeatShare

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

If every fan lost some weight, the club could put in smaller seats and add to the capacity that way.

Not really as they would have to move the aisles, and reposition and increase the number of stairwells due to safety laws.

 

[maltaseagull]

Not really as they would have to move the aisles, and reposition and increase the number of stairwells due to safety laws.

 

[Creaky]

FFS get off the fence, are you saying:-

MONORAIL

or

WATERSLIDE?

Got to be balloons

 

[The Birdman]

It would help if the Lewes Uckfield line is reopened with sustainable transport.

 

[schmunk]

It would help if the Lewes Uckfield line is reopened with sustainable transport.

The early leavers stream out...

 

[el punal]

Got to be balloons

Yay! Let’s hear it for the Montgolfier brothers.

 

[Simster]

So as we move into the realms of 32,000 and a 7-8,000 waiting list for season tickets, I wonder if those fans of tin pot Reading are still deluding themselves that we're very similar clubs?

 

[el punal]

Or perhaps a Seat Share Scheme whereby those on the waiting list - subject to a small admin charge obviously - would be granted access to the principal seat-holder's, er, seat, while the holder nipped out to the loo, went to get the beers in, or just left early

#TeamSeatShare

Just like the Oscars eh! Except of course we are talking English football fans here. A little scenario then :

You’ve just come back from the bog - “Off you trot mate, I’m back.”

Seat warmer - “F*** off! I’m not moving anywhere.”

You - “It’s my seat you c***!”

Seat warmer - “Tough shit. I’m staying put. Jog on.”

A bout of fisticuffs takes hold, stewards intervene, you and seat warmer get a three year banning order, the club passes on the season ticket to the next person on the waiting list - result!

 

[Creaky]

Yay! Let’s hear it for the Montgolfier brothers.

No way! They’re just a lot of hot air.

 

[Wozza]

35,000 is MINIMUM requirement for the alleged mid-table prem strategy IMHO...

Not, say, 33785 or 34560?