Geriatric Seagull
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If they want to increase audience size they won't be showing any of our home games!
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Americans can no longer pretend that the world’s favourite sport doesn’t exist.
- Thread starter Lyndhurst 14
- Start date
The World Cup is already HUGE in the US. More people watch the big USA and Mexico WC games than the any of the final Stanley Cup series, NBA finals or baseball World Series.
MLS is not big yet though. Gates are respectable - similar to the Championship here - and I suspect the same goes for quality of play. And the passion is there in the stands at two thirds of the clubs. But TV ratings are absolutely pitiful, which is why MLS has recently expanded its national footprint to Orlando, Atlanta and into the media capital of the world, NYC (as opposed to New Jersey).
Without wishing to sound too Faragey I think you'll find that's more to do with the Hispanic and European influences than actual American.
Soccerball still has a way to go to move it from the children and women sport for divers.
APACHE
LONGTIME DIEHARD
At grass roots soccer is big in the USA, travel in most states and you will see soccer goals on playing pitches. The moneymen won't be able to ignore it for much longer, there are many teams at the lower age levels once they realize there's money to be made the game will really take off.
The TV ratings for the world cup would suggest that the WC itself trumps that sentiment, which certainly has merit domestically. For the second WC running, there will be more Americans AT the WC than any other nation, bar the hosts.
Cannot see it beyond the old NASL and the associated 'superstars' of the 70's and likely to go the same way.
Perhaps the marketing is slicker these days, but I am guessing that is trumped by the standard sports of NHL, NBA etc. so no real progress.
As usual a few immigrant communities embracing it and dragging along a few locals too, but likely to be bankrupt by 2025, it always ends that way with soccer in the States.
Perhaps the marketing is slicker these days, but I am guessing that is trumped by the standard sports of NHL, NBA etc. so no real progress.
As usual a few immigrant communities embracing it and dragging along a few locals too, but likely to be bankrupt by 2025, it always ends that way with soccer in the States.
Vegas Seagull
New member
- Jul 10, 2009
- 7,782
[For the second WC running, there will be more Americans AT the WC than any other nation, bar the hosts.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect.
The FIFA data defines that people residing in the US have bought the 2nd highest amount if tickets.
The millions of Brazilian, Argentine, German & 10s of millions of Mexicans living in the US and buying from there distorts this fundamentally. Note also sharp US ticket agencies flogging on worldwide.
Let's watch the colours at an Argy game vs a US game for evidence?
Incorrect.
The FIFA data defines that people residing in the US have bought the 2nd highest amount if tickets.
The millions of Brazilian, Argentine, German & 10s of millions of Mexicans living in the US and buying from there distorts this fundamentally. Note also sharp US ticket agencies flogging on worldwide.
Let's watch the colours at an Argy game vs a US game for evidence?
There are some *massive* differences between MLS and the old NASL, notably the existence of "soccer specific stadiums" that many clubs use, the further fragmentation of the sports TV market and the presence of the internet giving the sport more exposure.
Incorrect.
The FIFA data defines that people residing in the US have bought the 2nd highest amount if tickets.
The millions of Brazilian, Argentine, German & 10s of millions of Mexicans living in the US and buying from there distorts this fundamentally. Note also sharp US ticket agencies flogging on worldwide.
Let's watch the colours at an Argy game vs a US game for evidence?[/QUOTE]You are right, although it has to be said there are a lot of Americans who don't necessarily support the USA. A lot dual-nationality Americans tend to support their other nation, much as we see ethnic minorities do in cricket here.
somerset
New member
This short article from January actually suggests that 'Soccer' doesnt even feature in the top half a dozen,..... it may be longer than you think.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10354114/harris-poll-nfl-most-popular-mlb-2nd
Perhaps, but I cannot see how/why soccer specific stadiums increase its likelihood to succeed, it seems an added costly burden if as I suspect it's longer term viability/popularity will wain.
NASL and MISL soccer was always represented within their TV stations, some quite obscure granted.
So although I accept your points are valid, not so much how this is going to turn the tide of a nation that have no great historic heritage of the game, or love for dour 1-1 draws, whilst passionately and patriotically supporting their own favoured sports.
The dynamics still seem pretty similar to the 70's and 80's and it failed.
HawkTheSeagull
New member
That'll be because "Soccer" isnt a traditional US Sport unlike NFL, NBA, MLB etc (the Americans like their abbreviations !!). Increasing the target audience through putting more matches on TV and expanding the MLS to cities/areas without a "soccer" club will further increase popularity. The article also points at a failing popularity of Baseball, and to be fair it is pretty boring.
"Soccer" is growing, no question but mainly in places like the East Coast. Seattle (the MLS team I follow) had an average attendance last season of 44,038, which is in the top 50 in the world for avg attendance and have 34,000 STHs. Portland, Seattle's rivals, sell out every match, over 50 in a row and have a waiting list of 9,000 - all are great numbers for the MLS. Numbers that will certainly keep climbing.
The Large One
Who's Next?
One thing we could learn from American sports in a Brighton & Hove Albion context - substituting Spanish Dave on just to take a penalty, then taking him off again once he's scored.
I hope it is a success, but to put some perspective on it remember the 70's.
This is how it panned out in the 70's and I have added a snapshot of the NASL in 1979, crowds quite impressive with some truly massive crowds with New York Cosmos leading the way with some crowds 70 000, but it still failed.
A bit of history ....
1970s A galaxy of foreign star players and coaches move to the States and Canada
(Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Eusebio, Weissweiler, Michels, Moore, Best, Francis,
Chinaglia, Krol, Muller, Alberto...) and attendances double in
just two years as a result of this. The NY Cosmos regularly
attract crowds of up to 70000 people to their games.
1978 - The league decides to expand to 24 teams. Unfortunately, the
spiralling costs begin to take their toll. Although attendances
continue to rise, most teams admit to financial problems.
1981 - The NASL collapses, losing 17 of its franchises in just four
years.
The league is eventually closed down in March 1985.
1979 AVERAGE Attendances
NATIONAL CONFERENCE
Eastern Division
New York Cosmos 46,690
Washington Diplomats 11,949
Toronto Blizzard 11,821
Rochester Lancers 8,680
Central Division
Minnesota Kicks 24,580
Dallas Tornado 9,321
Tulsa Roughnecks 16,425
Atlanta Chiefs 7,350
Western Division
Vancouver Whitecaps 22,962
Los Angeles Aztecs 14,333
Seattle Sounders 18,997
Portland Timbers 11,172
AMERICAN CONFERENCE
Eastern Division
Tampa Bay Rowdies 27,650
Fort Lauderdale Strikers 13,774
Philadelphia Fury 5,626
New England Tea Men 6,526
Central Division
Houston Hurricane 6,211
Chicago Sting 8,036
Detroit Express 14,058
Memphis Rogues 7,137
Western Division
California Surf 10,330
San Diego Sockers 11,271
Edmonton Drillers 9,923
San Jose Earthquakes 15,092
Its gonna be tough not to go the same way .......
Man of Harveys
Well-known member
There's even more here in Texas. Male waiters hear my thankfully still British-sounding accent and nearly always ask which team I support.
To which my stock response has become that, despite whatever they might say on NBC Sport and Fox Soccer, that Brighton and Hove Albion are by far the greatest team the world has ever seen.
Man of Harveys
Well-known member
The NASL lasted 16 years. MLS has already lasted 21 years already and is still growing. And barring American Indians - whose presence at MLS is undocumented - everyone's part of an "immigrant" community here, of course. You're as wrong as wrong can be, IMHO.
I have lived, watched and know people who played professional football in the states, I know it quite well and I hope it succeeds as you are telling us, but its been seen before and it looks very similar.
Its always quite impressive, the razzmatazz, the venues previously always lent from their sporting partners and a smattering of European and South American talent but it never endures.
You will have a window of some success and once again it all goes down the plug hole, those investors never really hang about for long, clubs literally wiped from the map or moved to never return.
Its having a resurgence and just as in the 70's, ageing superstars are willing to take their dollar, people are excited, and I am glad.
As you have said the MLS has already lasted 21 years, enjoy it my friend as it will soon return to the pre Beckham days when no one knew it existed, apart from you that is.
Man of Harveys
Well-known member
Weird.
Which bit, then I can tell you why your probably wrong ??
Always worth trying to ensure your grammar is spot on when attempting to patronise, otherwise you're always going to look a bit of a cock.
The main reasons we disagree with you are the presence of soccer specific stadia, which have created a demand for tickets. There has also been a seismic shift of attitude towards the game from Joe Six-Pack in the States. Plus the people involved running the league are clearly in it for the long run - they have deeper pockets than the old NASL owners ever had, and have lost money but have stuck it out to the extent that they are beginning to make money now.
Lyndhurst 14
Well-known member
- Jan 16, 2008
- 5,242
- Thread starter
- #40
MLS is a lot more sustainable now than soccer was in the 70s for a lot of reasons:
New York Cosmos, which was one of the main attractions then, was owned by an entertainment conglomerate who really had very little firsthand knowledge about how soccer is run and they lost interest when the initial interest started to disappear. The new owners are a different breed.
MLS expansion is a slow and gradual process, they can identify a need rather than just flooding the market. They also seem to be well run financially with the salary cap and designated player rules.
The viewing / attending demographic has changed. There are more Latinos and Europeans based in the States who are passionate about soccer – international and domestic. I’ve been a season ticket holder at Red Bulls for a few years now and have noticed more Americans (and their kids) attending regularly. The MLS clubs are very customer focused making the match day experience better. The American supporters I’ve spoken to say they like the game because it’s not subject to endless time-outs and commercial breaks, it’s also over in under 2 hours, unlike the 3 hours for US sports.
It will probably never challenge the big 3 but it has found its niche and it’s not going to disappear in the near future.