[News] American mass shootings

[birthofanorange]

Like in all neo-liberal countries, market regulation is considered the most evil thing on the planet.

That said, the prevalence of guns is just a small part of the issue. Its not difficult getting a gun in most countries. I could take the bus to Malmo right now and buy one, with ammo, for less than £200. Not sure if its the case in the UK but you could do the same thing in Netherlands, France etc. If you want to shoot people in a school, you can.

The main difference between the US and pretty much anywhere else is that people actually do these things over there. The issues are far more deeply rooted than just gun control.

Don't you have to obtain a licence etc, in Sweden and aren't they used for hunting, anyway? I'm sure you can't just walk around with a firearm in your pocket - besides, what's to hunt in Malmo?

 

[BadFish]

There are many other countries where people have big mental health issues - and where healthcare is not great. I don't see regular gun massacres anywhere else, though

Add the guns availability into the mix and you have a perfect storm of conditions for this shit. I am not suggesting for a minute that the health system is wholly or even mostly to blame but I do believe it plays a significant role.

Of the two issues one is certainly not going to change so perhaps the other may improve things a little? Possibly clutching at straws?

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[portlock seagull]

It’s not really news given it’s in America, although it doubles this years tally so far. And I think we all know the answer to the OPs question ie Never. One of the hazards of living in an armed society, this is a country where a 6 year old shot dead a classmate simply because he didn’t like her. How on earth does a 6year old have access to and know how to fire a real gun?

 

[BadFish]

Like in all neo-liberal countries, market regulation is considered the most evil thing on the planet.

That said, the prevalence of guns is just a small part of the issue. Its not difficult getting a gun in most countries. I could take the bus to Malmo right now and buy one, with ammo, for less than £200. Not sure if its the case in the UK but you could do the same thing in Netherlands, France etc. If you want to shoot people in a school, you can.

The main difference between the US and pretty much anywhere else is that people actually do these things over there. The issues are far more deeply rooted than just gun control.

What no background checks, mental health information, documentation about the reasons for buying your gun, information on transportation etc?

Or are you talking about the illegal market?

I agree though that guns are integral to US culture which means they (and big **** off assault rifles) are within easy access for people to do this shit.

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[Fungus]

But why is it always a SCHOOL?

 

[sjamesb3466]

But why is it always a SCHOOL?

Easy target essentially. Some schools may have armed security but most won't, lots of kids who are not a physical threat. Just seen Texas Attorney General suggesting arming teachers as a solution. Mental doesn't even cover it

 

[Insel affe]

But why is it always a SCHOOL?

Not though is it..

Ask the African Americans killed by a white supremacist clad in body armour as he opened fire at a Tops supermarket,

 

[Swansman]

Criminals and gangs can get guns in the UK, obviously - and illegally. Ordinary citizens? Not a f*****g chance. I went to the local police station to enquire about the procedure for acquiring a gun licence, and to ask what needed a licence and what didn't - they couldn't throw me out fast enough - indeed I think they were struggling not to arrest me and think of a charge later!

Don't you have to obtain a licence etc, in Sweden and aren't they used for hunting, anyway? I'm sure you can't just walk around with a firearm in your pocket - besides, what's to hunt in Malmo?

What no background checks, mental health information, documentation about the reasons for buying your gun, information on transportation etc?

Or are you talking about the illegal market?

I agree though that guns are integral to US culture which means they (and big **** off assault rifles) are within easy access for people to do this shit.

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Well we have a lot of legal gun owners in this country since this is a massive country with a lot of wildlife and a lot of people owning a lot of land and most farmers have a license because they need to protect their land from boars (we have 300k, you have 4k) and wolves and stuff. Gun heavy country.

But I'm mainly talking about the illegal market. Estimations vary but there is likely around 100 000 illegal guns in Sweden, or about 1 per 100 people. We have shootings almost daily. Just in the last 4 days, 3 people were shot to death. About 8 out of 10 of the shootings are gang related, and the gangs control entire areas - like Rosengård in Malmö. I could go there by bus, walk up to some shady young men and ask for a gun and get it within 5 minutes of paying. We've had plenty of journalists doing it for research purposes and it is very, very easy. And there is usually no police presence because it is too dangerous.

Most countries doesn't have the same gang issues that Sweden has, but in countries like France or the Netherlands or ex-Yugoslavia the situation is somewhat similar. If you know where to buy drugs you also know where to buy guns. Despite this easy access, people don't go to schools and shot people.

While gun access certainly increases gun violence, there must be other triggers that makes this so common in the US. Even if you have access to a gun, you don't go shooting a bunch of innocent unless you're highly disturbed in some other way - and something is making people in the US highly disturbed. Presumably a number of factors.

 

[birthofanorange]

Well we have a lot of legal gun owners in this country since this is a massive country with a lot of wildlife and a lot of people owning a lot of land and most farmers have a license because they need to protect their land from boars (we have 300k, you have 4k) and wolves and stuff. Gun heavy country.

But I'm mainly talking about the illegal market. Estimations vary but there is likely around 100 000 illegal guns in Sweden, or about 1 per 100 people. We have shootings almost daily. Just in the last 4 days, 3 people were shot to death. About 8 out of 10 of the shootings are gang related, and the gangs control entire areas - like Rosengård in Malmö. I could go there by bus, walk up to some shady young men and ask for a gun and get it within 5 minutes of paying. We've had plenty of journalists doing it for research purposes and it is very, very easy. And there is usually no police presence because it is too dangerous.

Most countries doesn't have the same gang issues that Sweden has, but in countries like France or the Netherlands or ex-Yugoslavia the situation is somewhat similar. If you know where to buy drugs you also know where to buy guns. Despite this easy access, people don't go to schools and shot people.

While gun access certainly increases gun violence, there must be other triggers that makes this so common in the US. Even if you have access to a gun, you don't go shooting a bunch of innocent unless you're highly disturbed in some other way - and something is making people in the US highly disturbed. Presumably a number of factors.

I guess my partner was pretty sheltered from the goings-on down in the south. Where she's from, they really are used solely for hunting (except for the odd nutter, of course).
As for what drives Americans to behave in such a way - God knows. Whilst I have every sympathy for those innocents that perish, I find it hard to have any for the country itself, as they chose to board this unstoppable ride, and only they themselves can try to change it.
The rest of us look on and shake our heads and weep.

 

[Swansman]

I guess my partner was pretty sheltered from the goings-on down in the south. Where she's from, they really are used solely for hunting (except for the odd nutter, of course).
As for what drives Americans to behave in such a way - God knows. Whilst I have every sympathy for those innocents that perish, I find it hard to have any for the country itself, as they chose to board this unstoppable ride, and only they themselves can try to change it.
The rest of us look on and shake our heads and weep.

Maybe she moved a long time ago. Its not only in the south, but the shootings has gone from lowest per capita to one of the highest per capita in 20 years.
Yankytown - or parts of it - appears to be extreme in a lot of different ways so it is indeed difficult to nail down all the problems... or the solutions for that matter. Stricter gun control might help but I seriously don't think it would make a massive difference - I think the main way to solve it is to solve the "reasons" why people use guns rather than the guns themselves.

 

[birthofanorange]

Maybe she moved a long time ago. Its not only in the south, but the shootings has gone from lowest per capita to one of the highest per capita in 20 years.
Yankytown - or parts of it - appears to be extreme in a lot of different ways so it is indeed difficult to nail down all the problems... or the solutions for that matter. Stricter gun control might help but I seriously don't think it would make a massive difference - I think the main way to solve it is to solve the "reasons" why people use guns rather than the guns themselves.

She moved here 20 years ago, from the north of Sweden, and it's still (so far) not an issue up there.
As for solving the 'reasons' (there and in America), that could take forever, and unless gun ownership is restricted, there'll be hundreds if not thousands more similar events, before the reasons are even identified, let alone become solvable. I'm hopeful that the (supposed) majority can get their fingers out of their arses and enforce some radical changes.
Yet, I doubt it.

 

[BadFish]

Well we have a lot of legal gun owners in this country since this is a massive country with a lot of wildlife and a lot of people owning a lot of land and most farmers have a license because they need to protect their land from boars (we have 300k, you have 4k) and wolves and stuff. Gun heavy country.

But I'm mainly talking about the illegal market. Estimations vary but there is likely around 100 000 illegal guns in Sweden, or about 1 per 100 people. We have shootings almost daily. Just in the last 4 days, 3 people were shot to death. About 8 out of 10 of the shootings are gang related, and the gangs control entire areas - like Rosengård in Malmö. I could go there by bus, walk up to some shady young men and ask for a gun and get it within 5 minutes of paying. We've had plenty of journalists doing it for research purposes and it is very, very easy. And there is usually no police presence because it is too dangerous.

Most countries doesn't have the same gang issues that Sweden has, but in countries like France or the Netherlands or ex-Yugoslavia the situation is somewhat similar. If you know where to buy drugs you also know where to buy guns. Despite this easy access, people don't go to schools and shot people.

While gun access certainly increases gun violence, there must be other triggers that makes this so common in the US. Even if you have access to a gun, you don't go shooting a bunch of innocent unless you're highly disturbed in some other way - and something is making people in the US highly disturbed. Presumably a number of factors.

The easy access you are describing is no where near the easy access enjoyed by raiding the family gun cabinet. This both ease of access and range of weapons available.

The pure time and effort of finding and dealing with those shady characters and then waiting for them to get your item is plenty of time to act as a circuit breaker in someone's shooting plan.

My best guess would be that this is a large part of the differences. Add to this the appalling health system in the US compared to what I would imagine is pretty good in Sweden.

I am not sure that comparing school shootings and gang shootings is quite right. Both using similar weapons but surely they reasons and processes behind the two are wildly different. This means that the solutions for both are going to be quite different. I think gun control will assist with the school and mass shootings (as it has here in Australia) but I agree that it won't make much difference in terms of the black market and gang related shootings.

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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

America will sit on its hands, there will be no action. My heart goes out to every parent who will never see their child again, and the family of the teacher killed.

America is fast becoming a horror story of our time, and it’s sad to see.

I know what you mean but per capita more are dying of disease in India, of poverty and crime in Brazil, and of Russia in Ukraine, so Americans feel blessed.

And in any case, consider how much more vulnerable the average American would feel if they didn't own a gun?

(this is how confirmation bias works, as you doubtless already know).

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well we have a lot of legal gun owners in this country since this is a massive country with a lot of wildlife and a lot of people owning a lot of land and most farmers have a license because they need to protect their land from boars (we have 300k, you have 4k) and wolves and stuff. Gun heavy country.

But I'm mainly talking about the illegal market. Estimations vary but there is likely around 100 000 illegal guns in Sweden, or about 1 per 100 people. We have shootings almost daily. Just in the last 4 days, 3 people were shot to death. About 8 out of 10 of the shootings are gang related, and the gangs control entire areas - like Rosengård in Malmö. I could go there by bus, walk up to some shady young men and ask for a gun and get it within 5 minutes of paying. We've had plenty of journalists doing it for research purposes and it is very, very easy. And there is usually no police presence because it is too dangerous.

Most countries doesn't have the same gang issues that Sweden has, but in countries like France or the Netherlands or ex-Yugoslavia the situation is somewhat similar. If you know where to buy drugs you also know where to buy guns. Despite this easy access, people don't go to schools and shot people.

While gun access certainly increases gun violence, there must be other triggers that makes this so common in the US. Even if you have access to a gun, you don't go shooting a bunch of innocent unless you're highly disturbed in some other way - and something is making people in the US highly disturbed. Presumably a number of factors.

Yes, you are quite right.

OK here is my suggestion of an explanation.

The perfect storm, (i) easy access to guns; (ii) a national culture of 'winner' mentality - (iii) if you are not a winner you are a looser; (iv) everything in America is 'the best' and (v) if you are a looser you may get crazy; (vi) OK not everone who gets crazy kills people, so it is pretty rare; (vii) but you only need one looser who is crazy with a gun to have a murder spree pretty much anywhere in the US every year.

Fuggem, I say. If you don't want your kids killed and you can't mobilise enough action against the NRA (who are not the majority) then pay the price.

Sadly, like everywhere, we all get the governments and the laws and the jeopardy we deserve. In the US there is a folksy nostalgia for frontiersmen and their guns. That is their 'God Save the dear old Queen Mum, Queen Vic and Vera Lynn'. A price they are prepared to pay.

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Add the guns availability into the mix and you have a perfect storm of conditions for this shit. I am not suggesting for a minute that the health system is wholly or even mostly to blame but I do believe it plays a significant role.

Of the two issues one is certainly not going to change so perhaps the other may improve things a little? Possibly clutching at straws?

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You're 100% spot on.


It's a mental health crisis.

The vast majority of serial killers don't use guns but the US seems to have far more serial killers than any other nation per head of pop.

 

[hart's shirt]

Meanwhile, the death toll rises to 21.

 

[birthofanorange]

Anywhere that allows 18 year olds to get tooled up with guns, yet won't allow anyone to buy a beer until 21, is truly ****ed up. Did the dumb shits never think of at least doing that the other way around?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But why is it always a SCHOOL?

It isn’t; it’s just more that only these make the news these days; there was over 60 US mass shootings in April alone.

 

[Stat Brother]

My twitter feed this morning

[tweet]1529246789290934272[/tweet]


Then 3 posts later, there's this

[tweet]1529251122661179397[/tweet]


I just can't comprehend how the answer to this can be:-

'more guns in schools'.

 

[vegster]

The BBC reporting that guns have replaced car accidents as the leading cause of death for children and teens in the US since 2020.

Biden " sickened and upset " by the latest atrocity but the pro gun lobby are dug in already. We know the solution but sadly, we will be here again and again. RIP those poor kids.