American Health care.

[Barrel of Fun]

BBC News - US House passes key healthcare reform bill

The US House of Representatives has narrowly voted to pass a landmark healthcare reform bill at the heart of President Barack Obama's agenda.

The bill was passed by 219 votes to 212, with no Republican backing, after hours of fierce argument and debate.

It extends coverage to 32 million more Americans, and marks the biggest change to the US healthcare system in decades.

 

[Peteinblack]

Hurrah

The dumb-as-f*** Hicksville Republicans, Bible Belters and Tea Party tossers will see this as 'proof' that America is going Communist !

 

[bhaexpress]

Hurrah

The dumb-as-f*** Hicksville Republicans, Bible Belters and Tea Party tossers will see this as 'proof' that America is going Communist !

Yes, and the joke is that many of them will benefit. What it's about is that American think they pay too much tax already. The complain about Tax the way we complain about the wearther/foorball/cricket and so on.

 

[The Spanish]

yet more anti american drivel. i almost swerved the thread but thought why not i need to get wound up.

i have been in the US all week building up to this and from what i see/hear you could not be further from the truth if you think everyone thinks f*** everyone else i want to pay zero tax to spend on big cars and guns.

i am surprised some of our full time US correspondents have not waded in. still its hard to buck the NSC tedious anti US/British boring ill informed Guardian reading trend I suppose.

 

[Hunting 784561]

Obama really wanted a state run healthcare system.

This bill, which is really just forcing US insurance companies to drop pre-existing condition clauses, etc, etc, is a major compromise.

Still a lot better than what they had before though.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

A lot of Americans do see this as the first step on the slippery slope to Socialism. They conveniently forget that it was the Obama administration that had to bail out Wall Street and the Government briefly owned over 50% of the major US banks and insurance companies, that sure sounds like socialism to me.

The previous Republican governments had delivered the complete health care system to their buddies in the insurance industry. Healthcare is way too important to let a bunch of insurance companies dictate how the masses receive their medical treatment.You can spend hours wrangling with some glorified loss adjuster to get your bills paid. All Obama has done is to redress the balance.

 

[beorhthelm]

i have been in the US all week building up to this and from what i see/hear you could not be further from the truth if you think everyone thinks f*** everyone else i want to pay zero tax to spend on big cars and guns.

are you going to explain why there is such objection to healthcare reforms then?

 

[Acker79]

A lot of americans do have this inate fear of socialism in all forms, while not realising their society has embraced it in others. Glenn Beck was at a conservative convention recently and discussed the dreaded progressivism destroying america, bringing in socialism etc.

He talked about history and such, and then rhetorically asked "how do I know all this? I read it in a book. I went to my local library and got it from the books. And you know what? It was free!"

The america library system is a socialist system. The books aren't free, they are paid for by taxes.

Their road system, state school system, fire service, beloved armed forces, are all financed through socialism.

 

[User removed 4]

are you going to explain why there is such objection to healthcare reforms then?

I think he's saying that there isnt widespread obection.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think he's saying that there isnt widespread obection.

so the news reports of that, and the 212 opposing Republicans, is all just hype?

 

[Acker79]

are you going to explain why there is such objection to healthcare reforms then?

Some argue that it is so expensive that it will increase the budget deficit. For some, as I mentioned in my last post it is an idealogical disagreement. It isn't the helping people they are opposed to, it's the socialism they're opposed to. I think for some it is simply fear of change, things are working for them now, who knows how the system will work (this fear is often amplified by Fox news and rich businessmen and senators who have a financial interest in keeping the insurance system as it is due to the companies funding their campaigns),


I think it might also be group mentality, and biased surveys (asking questions such as "would you support an obama health care system that takes money away from the military?") creating a false sense of what the bill is/does.

 

[User removed 4]

so the news reports of that, and the 212 opposing Republicans, is all just hype?

amongst the man in the street .

 

[Acker79]

so the news reports of that, and the 212 opposing Republicans, is all just hype?

No, that the news reports are exaggerated/selective and manipulated (see my last post about misleading surveys, see also the case of Fox news showing a protest march that was said to be protesting against one thing, but was old footage of a much larger protest for something else), and that the senators have their own vested interests.

Some voted against it because it included the proviso that abortions wouldn't be funded. Some voted against it because it didn't go far enough, some voted against it because some of the compromises/deals struck to win other votes.

 

[beorhthelm]

the irony of course is that pay insurance for healthcare is no different to paying tax for healthcare - you still only get to see the benefit if unfortunate enough to fall ill, and for most who are healthy they are subsidising the others currently unwell.

sorry, are you *really* trying to say that actually healthcare is widely supported trhough out the common population? thats rubbish, for all the exaggeration and presentation of those with vested interests (an over hyped concept itself, sometimes its just good old fashion conviction), there is a mistrust of government and taxation. its ingrained in the american psyche. i know US people and they dont like it one bit, this is seen as a powergrab at best, socialism at worse.

 

[Rookie]

the irony of course is that pay insurance for healthcare is no different to paying tax for healthcare - you still only get to see the benefit if unfortunate enough to fall ill, and for most who are healthy they are subsidising the others currently unwell.

sorry, are you *really* trying to say that actually healthcare is widely supported trhough out the common population? thats rubbish, for all the exaggeration and presentation of those with vested interests (an over hyped concept itself, sometimes its just good old fashion conviction), there is a mistrust of government and taxation. its ingrained in the american psyche. i know US people and they dont like it one bit, this is seen as a powergrab at best, socialism at worse.

how do you know its rubbish. Obama got voted in and a major part of his campaign was for healthcare reform so a large part of the American population must agree. Don't believe all that is written

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

One of the most amusing things was seeing Rush Limbaugh, one of the right wing nutters on talk radio, make a complete tit of himself.

He was taken into a hospital in Hawaii suffering from chest pains (which unfortunately weren't fatal). After being treated he said how wonderful that American State’s health care was and he couldn’t see the need for reform. Unfortunately he didn’t realize that Hawaii has the near universal health care system he so despises.

 

[beorhthelm]

how do you know its rubbish. Obama got voted in and a major part of his campaign was for healthcare reform so a large part of the American population must agree. Don't believe all that is written

and where did i say no one supported it? im challenging the assertion that seems to be made here that it has broad, widespread support. i know there are many areas and groups that do support it, but there are also many that oppose it.

 

[Acker79]

One of the most amusing things was seeing Rush Limbaugh, one of the right wing nutters on talk radio, make a complete tit of himself.

He was taken into a hospital in Hawaii suffering from chest pains (which unfortunately weren't fatal). After being treated he said how wonderful that American State’s health care was and he couldn’t see the need for reform. Unfortunately he didn’t realize that Hawaii has the near universal health care system he so despises.

He also recently said that if a universal health care bill is passed he'd leave america and move to another country. I can't remember which one he specified, but it was one that has socialised health care.

 

[Acker79]

sorry, are you *really* trying to say that actually healthcare is widely supported trhough out the common population?

I don't believe that's what I said. I'm saying that it has more support than a lot of american media paint it to have.

And that the people that are opposed to it aren't necessarily opposed to it because they are selfish people who don't want to pay taxes.

 

[bullshit detector]

shame it's not REAL socialism, then Limbaugh and all his crappy right wing sidekicks would have their radio stations and newspapers closed down, like Chavez is doing in Venezuala..
Still at last Obama has done SOMETHING for the people that voted for him rather than just bailing out the rich