[Albion] Alireza Jahanbakhsh joins Feyenoord

[NooBHA]

I think Hughton has his tactics and sticks to them. We are not suddenly going to be a team that presses high and plays possession football... the question is, are the signings we've made suited to Hughton's tactics? If not, why not? My view is that the attacking players are better than we're seeing because they are forced to defend far too much, and when we do attack we tend to have an absolute maximum of 2 players in the box - maybe 1. I don't care how good the winger is, he's highly unlikely to look good in that system.

This isn't an anti-Hughton post. If that's the way he feels we need to play, so be it - and Uncle Tony will decide if that works for Albion. My point is that it's very hard to judge our attack-minded players in such a system. Forget the wingers, I would love to see players like Propper and Bissouma given a little more licence to influence the game in the final 3rd as that's where they can cause damage.

It is a myth that they don't have a licence to get forward.

They do

However to date they can't play probing paces to split defences. They play it back inside or wide until they eventually lose it and then they can't get back when teams counter. Thats where all the goals have been lost recently in the last 3 home games.

Bissouma has actually burst past defenders with the ball but then either no on is bursting into the box or he can't pick someone out.

If you think these players have absolutely no licence to get forward then you are mistaken - It's not that they don't do it. Its not that they can't do it. It's that they HAVEN'T done it.

Look at Man City. The best team in the country at playing probing passes through defences but even if they win 7-0 playing that way - To score those 7 goals. They have probably had about 30 attempts to split defences and create goals. So the success rate percentage wise, even for the best teams isn't a high percentage.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It is a myth that they don't have a licence to get forward.

They do

However to date they can't play probing paces to split defences. They play it back inside or wide until they eventually lose it and then they can't get back when teams counter. Thats where all the goals have been lost recently in the last 3 home games.

Bissouma has actually burst past defenders with the ball but then either no on is bursting into the box or he can't pick someone out.

If you think these players have absolutely no licence to get forward then you are mistaken - It's not that they don't do it. Its not that they can't do it. It's that they HAVEN'T done it.

Look at Man City. The best team in the country at playing probing passes through defences but even if they win 7-0 playing that way - To score those 7 goals. They have probably had about 30 attempts to split defences and create goals. So the success rate percentage wise, even for the best teams isn't a high percentage.

I thought against Cardiff we were as attacking as we'd been in 2019, fullbacks were getting to the byline, Gross was probing and getting players running onto balls into dangerous areas, however the amount of times we made poor decisions was huge. From really good positions we set ourselves up to be counter attacked. The worse one was Propper who could have shot, but dithered, and they scored from the break. It wasn't tactics for him not to shoot, that was a player in poor form not able to make an instinctive decision. March had some moments too, one in particular Gross ran through the middle, it opened up beautifully for March to just pass him in but completely didn't see it, ended up playing a cross field pass to where Montoya was isolated and we lost the ball again. Propper actually got forward in and around the box a lot, he had license to attack, our use of the ball though is terrible at times.

 

[Driver8]

Weren't we told by various players / the manager, that this year we would be playing a much more pressing style, and thats what we worked on at pre season training?? Sure I remember Solly & Bruno talking about it?

We played like that against Everton. Hassling their defenders and not letting them play out. It worked really well but for some reason we have never tried it again. The way we play currently is so frustrating it can’t continue.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Personally, I would like us to play a pressing game, much like Southampton have done. This pushes everyone further up the pitch. I'm not the manager though.

The key to pressing though, isn't as a tactical decision by the manager, or a simple decision to press, it is retention of the ball when you get it.

What we lack is confidence in possession in tight situations, and it is this that is essential to the high press. You are compressing play and by that very process you're passing has to be laser accurate and your touch and ability in a tight space has to be confident through the team. This is where we fall down imho, we really have lacked composure, confidence and effectiveness in tight spaces.

If you press and keep losing the ball, you cannot sustain that physical pressure for long. Man City and Liverpool manage it because once they have the ball, different players have time to recover, you don't get that if the ball is constantly turned over.

Would be great to see us have the ability to press the opposition, we have to stop giving the ball away so cheaply before we can do effectively.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

The key to pressing though, isn't as a tactical decision by the manager, or a simple decision to press, it is retention of the ball when you get it.

What we lack is confidence in possession in tight situations, and it is this that is essential to the high press. You are compressing play and by that very process you're passing has to be laser accurate and your touch and ability in a tight space has to be confident through the team. This is where we fall down imho, we really have lacked composure, confidence and effectiveness in tight spaces.

If you press and keep losing the ball, you cannot sustain that physical pressure for long. Man City and Liverpool manage it because once they have the ball, different players have time to recover, you don't get that if the ball is constantly turned over.

Would be great to see us have the ability to press the opposition, we have to stop giving the ball away so cheaply before we can do effectively.

Not many teams press high up the pitch for the full 90 minutes, but will do ten minutes & have a break, do ten minutes etc... The obvious exceptions are the Man City and Liverpools who have the ball much more. But against us, Southampton pressed high regularly... they had more of the ball, but not 80% by any means. My view is that it is a tactical decision

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I thought against Cardiff we were as attacking as we'd been in 2019, fullbacks were getting to the byline, Gross was probing and getting players running onto balls into dangerous areas, however the amount of times we made poor decisions was huge. From really good positions we set ourselves up to be counter attacked. The worse one was Propper who could have shot, but dithered, and they scored from the break. It wasn't tactics for him not to shoot, that was a player in poor form not able to make an instinctive decision. March had some moments too, one in particular Gross ran through the middle, it opened up beautifully for March to just pass him in but completely didn't see it, ended up playing a cross field pass to where Montoya was isolated and we lost the ball again. Propper actually got forward in and around the box a lot, he had license to attack, our use of the ball though is terrible at times.

I agree with this... against Cardiff we did see more attacking intentions until they scored. And that Propper incident before the goal annoyed me just as much as you it seems! We went from a shooting opportunity to conceding in a matter of seconds. That's a confidence thing

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Not many teams press high up the pitch for the full 90 minutes, but will do ten minutes & have a break, do ten minutes etc... The obvious exceptions are the Man City and Liverpools who have the ball much more. But against us, Southampton pressed high regularly... they had more of the ball, but not 80% by any means. My view is that it is a tactical decision

It is 100% a tactical decision. A good example was the recent Southampton v Liverpool game. In the first half, Southampton pressed Liverpool relentlessly to the point that they were taking a defensive action every 5-6 passes. After half time, this number absolutely plummeted to around 3 times that number. Now some would argue they were just knackered, but having watched the game it became clear that they didn't engage Liverpool in the second half until Liverpool had the ball deep in their half. They did something similar against us, albeit the numbers weren't as extreme as we're not as good as Liverpool.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I agree with this... against Cardiff we did see more attacking intentions until they scored. And that Propper incident before the goal annoyed me just as much as you it seems! We went from a shooting opportunity to conceding in a matter of seconds. That's a confidence thing

It is and it's not. At times we're not smart enough. The best teams use situations like that to make tactical fouls to allow them to regroup and restructure. We don't do that nearly enough. Although other teams' pressing strategy allows for them to be more proactive in this regard due to the 6 second rule.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It is 100% a tactical decision. A good example was the recent Southampton v Liverpool game. In the first half, Southampton pressed Liverpool relentlessly to the point that they were taking a defensive action every 5-6 passes. After half time, this number absolutely plummeted to around 3 times that number. Now some would argue they were just knackered, but having watched the game it became clear that they didn't engage Liverpool in the second half until Liverpool had the ball deep in their half. They did something similar against us, albeit the numbers weren't as extreme as we're not as good as Liverpool.

Under Hasenhüttl Saints have gone P21 W8 D4 L9 pts28. That compares with our first 21 games; W7 D5 L9 pts26. They've played some better football at times it must be said, but for me, lets just say the scenario of us and Cardiff winning Saturday plays out, and Bournemouth cancel their holidays and win, then Southampton are firmly back in this relegation battle.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Under Hasenhüttl Saints have gone P21 W8 D4 L9 pts28. That compares with our first 21 games; W7 D5 L9 pts26. They've played some better football at times it must be said, but for me, lets just say the scenario of us and Cardiff winning Saturday plays out, and Bournemouth cancel their holidays and win, then Southampton are firmly back in this relegation battle.

For sure. But there are extenuating circumstances to his arrival at Saints in that he's not been able to bring his own players in and he's changed the style of play. They looked a very good bet to go down when he arrived yet they're very close to being out of it. Plus, for me at least, I come to football to watch actual football being played. I can take us being beaten if we're having a go in the way Saints currently are. But it's really hard to stomach these performances, these tactics AND the second half of the season results.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Under Hasenhüttl Saints have gone P21 W8 D4 L9 pts28. That compares with our first 21 games; W7 D5 L9 pts26. They've played some better football at times it must be said, but for me, lets just say the scenario of us and Cardiff winning Saturday plays out, and Bournemouth cancel their holidays and win, then Southampton are firmly back in this relegation battle.

Add in a slightly unrealistic 5 goal swing, to that scenario, and we'd actually be above them on Saturday night:

Albion P36 Pts 37
Saints P36 Pts 37
Cardiff P36 Pts 34

However, where the idea of them being bang back in the mix falls down, is that their final game is a guaranteed three points from Huddersfield at home.

 

[TSB]

An expensive example of what the Dutch league (outside of Ajax) does not give you for your cash.

 

[perseus]

Pascal Groß to find Alireza Jahanbakhsh in the hole when Danny Rose pushes too far forward, and then a cross onto the onrushing Florin Andone.

That or a long punt out of defence and the Jürgen Locadia getting a lucky break.

I wanted José Izquierdo on the bench to stretch Spurs with his extra pace.

PS: I thought Spurs would get 13+ corners, not a mere six.

 

[Springal]

I wanted José Izquierdo on the bench to stretch Spurs with his extra pace.

Last seen 12 months ago

 

[Stumpy Tim]

However, where the idea of them being bang back in the mix falls down, is that their final game is a guaranteed three points from Huddersfield at home.

We've only got Man City, and they've got nothing to play for

 

[southstandandy]

Maybe they gave him a 5 year deal hoping that by year 5 he might have improved. If so we've got a long wait......

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Maybe they gave him a 5 year deal hoping that by year 5 he might have improved. If so we've got a long wait......

You can guarantee that, if after 4.5 years of that deal, he is still yet to register a single goal or assist, that [MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] will still be asking why everyone is so quick to judge him, and [MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION] will be maintaining that it is because he is yet to be played in QUITE his favourite position.

 

[Gritt23]

Ali, and Andone, and Locadia, and Bissouma, etc etc...

Hughton has done a brilliant job up until now, only the daft wouldn't acknowledge that. But we have no evidence in his career that he is able to take a club beyond around 15th/16th in the Prem.

I'm not saying angrily GET RID OF HOUGHTON NOW or any of that nonsense. I think it comes down to how ambitious Tony Bloom is, and how much he's willing to fund those ambitions.

And that's what it comes down to .... do we have the money to go beyond 15-18th in this division, as £15m signings do not get that done.

If we stay up, how much would someone be looking to pay for Stephens? A regular starter in a team that has survived two seasons without ever spending much time in the relegation zone. £20m? Doesn't seem unreasonable, or unlikely.

But that also means we are buying players for less that our currently players are worth, so of course we are not progressing. We have players in the 15-18th range in this division, and at best buy more in that range. The likes of West Ham spend £35m on Anderson, and £140k a week on Hernandez's wages. Sounds like crazy money to us still, but the reality is that is how much players cost that are a bit better than what we currently have.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

And that's what it comes down to .... do we have the money to go beyond 15-18th in this division, as £15m signings do not get that done.

If we stay up, how much would someone be looking to pay for Stephens? A regular starter in a team that has survived two seasons without ever spending much time in the relegation zone. £20m? Doesn't seem unreasonable, or unlikely.

But that also means we are buying players for less that our currently players are worth, so of course we are not progressing. We have players in the 15-18th range in this division, and at best buy more in that range. The likes of West Ham spend £35m on Anderson, and £140k a week on Hernandez's wages. Sounds like crazy money to us still, but the reality is that is how much players cost that are a bit better than what we currently have.

Agree, although Stephens price tag may get some comments!! There are success stories to be had - Delofeou cost £13m - I have no idea what his wages would be though - both together probably make him too expensive right now, but another season at this level may allow us to gamble more on one or two of these potential stars. Generally, I am happy that we are taking a pragmatic approach at this stage, but accept that it comes with limitations. There is a reason why we can afford to buy the players that we do - they are untried/untested at this level in England, or not consistent enough to attract the attentions of the bigger Clubs.

 

[Stat Brother]

You can guarantee that, if after 4.5 years of that deal, he is still yet to register a single goal or assist, that [MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] will still be asking why everyone is so quick to judge him, and [MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION] will be maintaining that it is because he is yet to be played in QUITE his favourite position.

I'll be more than happy to call him shitehouse long long before that and you can say just how wonderful you were for booooing him nice and early.

In the unlikely event everybody is wearing Ali J shirts in x months time, I'll take no 'victory' as at no point have I ever celebrated him.