Alien Abduction meeeting in Brighton

[Nibble]

You could just as easily divide the revolutions into 100's, call that 1 revolution, call it a day and then there would be 3.65 days in a year. Or 3.65 Blips in a Blap. Then we would be inseperably linked to there having always been 3.65 revolutions/days in a year before we discovered it and called it 3.65.

Nature has no concept of 365, it's an entirely man made concept. Passing of events is not linear as we organise it. Time is an essential yet entirely meaningless idea.

I have no faith that you will grasp this concept.

 

[Luke93]

I don't know what's more shocking. The number of people who beileve in Alien probe's (LOL) or the number of people who don't understand what a man-made concept is.

 

[birthofanorange]

Where's Carl Cox when you need him? Or do I mean Brian Sagan?

 

[Nibble]

But you still haven't got it:
That's still wrong. The figure was always (prior to creation of man) 365. It was an unknown figure at one time, and we figured it out. Exactly the opposite of what you said. We would have had words for 'year' and 'day' before we realised a year was 365 days.

How in the name of all this is good on earth, did 365 of anything exist before man? How?

 

[sten_super]

You could just as easily divide the revolutions into 100's, call that 1 revolution, call it a day and then there would be 3.65 days in a year. Or 3.65 Blips in a Blap. Then we would be inseperably linked to there having always been 3.65 revolutions/days in a year before we discovered it and called it 3.65.

Nature has no concept of 365, it's an entirely man made concept. Passing of events is not linear as we organise it. Time is an essential yet entirely meaningless idea.

I have no faith that you will grasp this concept.

Sorry, don't agree. You are constructing artificial constructs (100 revolutions) into other artificial units (1 day). Our understanding of days and years isn't based on a artificial construct - it's based on the movement of celestial bodies. If you stood on Mars, there would be what we call 'days' (complete revolutions of the planet) and 'years' (complete orbits of the sun) and there would be a different number of days in a year to the number we have here. But a day would still be a complete revolution of the planet and a year a complete orbit of the sun.

edit to add:

How in the name of all this is good on earth, did 365 of anything exist before man? How?

Before man, in the time it took the Earth to complete an orbit the sun, how many times did a dinosaur experience a sunrise?

I think I am starting to understand your perspective, that there was no-one to measure a 'year', or a complete orbit of the sun, before the past few thousand years. But that doesn't mean that the Earth failed to orbit the sun, or that there were seasons (which were approximately 365 sunrises from the start of one to the start of the same season again in the next cycle).

 

[beorhthelm]

Nature has no concept of 365, it's an entirely man made concept. Passing of events is not linear as we organise it. Time is an essential yet entirely meaningless idea.

you've managed to argue yourself from a point mis-understood due to a typo, to a place of pure nonsence. did you start Poets day nice and early?

 

[Luke93]

Sorry, don't agree. You are constructing artificial constructs (100 revolutions) into other artificial units (1 day). Our understanding of days and years isn't based on a artificial construct - it's based on the movement of celestial bodies. If you stood on Mars, there would be what we call 'days' (complete revolutions of the planet) and 'years' (complete orbits of the sun) and there would be a different number of days in a year to the number we have here. But a day would still be a complete revolution of the planet and a year a complete orbit of the sun.

Yes. But it was MAN who decided that one rotation was equal to one day. And a day is another concept created by man...

 

[Nibble]

Sorry, don't agree. You are constructing artificial constructs (100 revolutions) into other artificial units (1 day). Our understanding of days and years isn't based on a artificial construct - it's based on the movement of celestial bodies. If you stood on Mars, there would be what we call 'days' (complete revolutions of the planet) and 'years' (complete orbits of the sun) and there would be a different number of days in a year to the number we have here. But a day would still be a complete revolution of the planet and a year a complete orbit of the sun.




edit to add:



Before man, in the time it took the Earth to complete an orbit the sun, how many times did a dinosaur experience a sunrise?

I think I am starting to understand your perspective, that there was no-one to measure a 'year', or a complete orbit of the sun, before the past few thousand years. But that doesn't mean that the Earth failed to orbit the sun, or that there were seasons (which were approximately 365 sunrises from the start of one to the start of the same season again in the next cycle).

That has no bearing on the truth of the matter whatsoever.

 

[Nibble]

Yes. But it was MAN who decided that one rotation was equal to one day. And a day is another concept created by man...

What he said.

 

[The Truth]

That has no bearing on the truth of the matter whatsoever.

Back to the original question which started this debate.

So are you a Taurus?

http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Taurus Check out number 14 on the link.

 

[Nibble]

How?

I'm going to need a little more than that.

 

[sten_super]

Yes. But it was MAN who decided that one rotation was equal to one day. And a day is another concept created by man...

No. A day is our word for a rotation. The rotation exists, it's effects are manifested on the planet, whether we call it a day or not. 'A day' is our description of the observation of the sun rising and setting. There are seasons, whether we measure them or not, the Earth moves, both on its axis and relative to the sun, whether we measure it or not. We have chosen to mark the passing of time by these celestial movements, but that's by-the-by in terms of them actually occurring. And 500,000 years ago, well before anyone was around to measure anything, in the amount of time it took the Earth to complete one orbit of the sun, the Earth spun on its axis 365 times.

That has no bearing on the truth of the matter whatsoever.

This is clearly not true, because we're arguing largely about semantics. I don't think that there is a universal 'truth' to this.

 

[birthofanorange]

I have it on good authority that the dinosaurs used 10 revolutions of the planet to define 'a day'. It was important to them to do it this way.

 

[Luke93]

No. A day is our word for a rotation. The rotation exists, it's effects are manifested on the planet, whether we call it a day or not. 'A day' is our description of the observation of the sun rising and setting. There are seasons, whether we measure them or not, the Earth moves, both on its axis and relative to the sun, whether we measure it or not. We have chosen to mark the passing of time by these celestial movements, but that's by-the-by in terms of them actually occurring. And 500,000 years ago, well before anyone was around to measure anything, in the amount of time it took the Earth to complete one orbit of the sun, the Earth spun on its axis 365 times.



This is clearly not true, because we're arguing largely about semantics. I don't think that there is a universal 'truth' to this.

You're still not getting it XD

I'm only going to day this once...

NO ONE is denying that the earth spins 365 times in a year, that's fact. However, it was man that came up with the CONCEPT of dividing these rotations into days, and then into years. As you've said yourself, a 'year' isn't restricted to 365 days. A 'year' is how long a planner takes to fully rotate around its point of orbit. Man didn't creat nature, but man did measure and name it. That's the point Nibble was trying to make (I'm assuming). Concept doesn't equal fact, but it can be made up of them.

 

[The Truth]

You're still not getting it XD

I'm only going to day this once...

NO ONE is denying that the earth spins 365 times in a year, that's fact. However, it was man that came up with the CONCEPT of dividing these rotations into days, and then into years. As you've said yourself, a 'year' isn't restricted to 365 days. A 'year' is how long a planner takes to fully rotate around its point of orbit. Man didn't creat nature, but man did measure and name it. That's the point Nibble was trying to make (I'm assuming). Concept doesn't equal fact, but it can be made up of them.

So your point is basically that man invented language?

 

[Nibble]

So your point is basically that man invented language?

Seriously?

 

[The Truth]

Seriously?

it's the words 'Day' and 'week' etc which are invented by man. Is that your point?

You're not possibly saying that man made up what a week, day, year actually is, are you?

 

[Nibble]

The concept of man organising time to suit his needs. That's what I am talking. You're not getting it. Go back to looking at Ted Nugent's Tips For Surviving Government Inflicted Armageddon or whatever it is you think you do.

 

[birthofanorange]

 

[Triggaaar]

You could just as easily divide the revolutions into 100's, call that 1 revolution, call it a day

Well you can't call 100 revolutions 1 revolution without being wrong (or changing the meaning of the word revolution). You could call 100 revolutions 1 day, yes. Bit weird, but you could.

and then there would be 3.65 days in a year. Or 3.65 Blips in a Blap.

Indeed. But we don't decide it's 3.65, it's 3.65 because that's the number of your 'days' that it takes the earth to travel around the Sun once.

Then we would be inseperably linked to there having always been 3.65 revolutions/days in a year before we discovered it and called it 3.65.

3.65 of your new days, yes, but not 3.65 revolutions. Just as there's about 12 1/3rd lunar months in a year. We didn't choose that number either.

Nature has no concept of 365, it's an entirely man made concept.

You're just being silly. That's like saying earth didn't exist before we said it did, because nature has no concept of earth. Nature didn't have the concept, but the earth did spin (revolve). And it also went around the sun. And every time it went round the sun, it also revolved 365 times.

How in the name of all this is good on earth, did 365 of anything exist before man? How?

Just the same way that earth existed before man. The word 'earth' didn't, but the object we're talking about did. Just as the digits 365 didn't exist in our mind, the earth did revolve around the sun.

Man didn't creat nature, but man did measure and name it.

Yes, we measured it. We decided to call sunrises/sunsets days, and we decided to name the full cycle of seasons a year. At that point, we didn't know the number of days in a year, and we could choose it. We measured it, and got the answer.

That's the point Nibble was trying to make

Well he accidentally didn't, because he said "We didn't figure out how many days are in a year, we decided. There wasn't a secret, unknown figure waiting to be discovered." That's wrong. Long after we had the term for a day and a year, we measured and discovered the number of days in a year. That's very different to the number of hours in a day, which was decided rather than measured.