Alex Salmond resigns

[portlock seagull]

F*ck me, I've hit the single malt tonight, but clearly I've got some catching up to do!

Irish malt I hope. Has a smoother less bitter taste

 

[clapham_gull]

An honourable politician who has done the right thing. I've struggled to have an opinion on the whole thing to be he honest. As much as I hate nationalism, I also hate the arrogant centralisation of power in out of touch Westminister.

Show how rubbish the current lot in Westminster are that they relied on Gordon Brown to give the speech of his life to take them over the finish line.

Imagine the discussions behind the scenes, "Keep your head down Dave, they all think you a **** north of Watford.

 

[beorhthelm]

Salmond's own manor, Aberdeen, home to the oil industry who would prop up the independence dream, voted 60% No. tells a tale.

 

[portlock seagull]

An honourable politician who has done the right thing. I've struggled to have an opinion on the whole thing to be he honest. As much as I hate nationalism, I also hate the arrogant centralisation of power in out of touch Westminister.

Show how rubbish the current lot in Westminster are that they relied on Gordon Brown to give the speech of his life to take them over the finish line.

Imagine the discussions behind the scenes, "Keep your head down Dave, they all think you a **** north of Watford.

In fairness, he's not that popular south of Watford either but I take your point.

It's a bit odd tonight, I'm southern English and it's like the world hates us tonight because somehow being closer to London means we have more power and we don't get served the same political hobsons-choice as the rest of the UK! Everyone wants there own little country. Where's that all start and end though? Ethnic cleansing a la Balkans? Maybe the democratic peoples republic of Sussex excluding Croydon is the way forward? Sorry Clapham, you'll have to be an 'overseas' state, part of the Sussex-Commenwealth. Sort of like Argentina and the Falklands. Or Maldives if you live inThornton Heath.

 

[clapham_gull]

In fairness, he's not that popular south of Watford either but I take your point.

It's a bit odd tonight, I'm southern English and it's like the world hates us tonight because somehow being closer to London means we have more power and we don't get served the same political hobsons-choice as the rest of the UK! Everyone wants there own little country. Where's that all start and end though? Ethnic cleansing a la Balkans? Maybe the democratic peoples republic of Sussex excluding Croydon is the way forward? Sorry Clapham, you'll have to be an 'overseas' state, part of the Sussex-Commenwealth. Sort of like Argentina and the Falklands. Or Maldives if you live inThornton Heath.

Yes, I take your point. But there does exist a London centric arrogance.

It's something the lib dems have taken advantage of. Picking up votes by concentrating on local issues. They then end up with in a centralised power system with no cohesive thought through policies.

That's the product of centralised power and a first past the post system that can produce non representative coalitions.

If the electorate has become so fragmentented, the best solution i can think of is to devolute power.

Not Big Society, that's just a continuation of Thatcherism where private interests step in where the State can't be bothered / can't afford / I have a mate down the club with a business plan.

Slightly off topic, but what a f*** up by the Lib Dems. Trying to convince us of PR when given undue influence via first past the post. History will tell us they made a huge mistake going in bed with the Tories the first chance they had.

I hope they are destroyed at the next election.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Salmond's own manor, Aberdeen, home to the oil industry who would prop up the independence dream, voted 60% No. tells a tale.

Not surprising with the high number of millionaires who live there and a quarter of the population being non Scots.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I hope they are destroyed at the next election.

Looking increasingly likely with the Greens now matching their percentage support in the recent opinion polls.

 

[fat old seagull]

Does this mean that Scottish independent hopes lie with the ugly bird with the syrup?

This one do you mean ... Nicole Sturgeon-Krankie ?

 

[fat old seagull]

I'm sure it's unheard of for Republicans to accept a Knighthood...

Having said that,I will eat my own stools if he accepts one.

If your that sure you should eat a proper chair, or a sofa even.

 

[mona]

Blair may have been born in Scotland, and he spent a small part of his childhood there, but I am afraid that his upbringing was too English, he's not that easily disowned...

mmmm Fettes School is in Edinburgh. Blair had an Irish mother. His father came from Glasgow.
Blame the English for plenty of things but not him. Blair wanted to be English but was a posh Scot. Sorry he is easily disowned. Not that I believe in nationalistic bullsh$t anyway.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

In fairness, he's not that popular south of Watford either but I take your point.

It's a bit odd tonight, I'm southern English and it's like the world hates us tonight because somehow being closer to London means we have more power and we don't get served the same political hobsons-choice as the rest of the UK! Everyone wants there own little country. Where's that all start and end though? Ethnic cleansing a la Balkans? Maybe the democratic peoples republic of Sussex excluding Croydon is the way forward? Sorry Clapham, you'll have to be an 'overseas' state, part of the Sussex-Commenwealth. Sort of like Argentina and the Falklands. Or Maldives if you live inThornton Heath.

Since when was Croydon in Sussex?

 

[Jimmy Come Lately]

Yes yes yes. But he's still a loser. Joins the same political class as Hitler ultimately. Sold the entire country a false story but eventually people saw sense. I believe there are still people in Germany harking on about the 3rd reich golden years. Misguided fools, can take generations to eradicate such nonsense.

Fishing indeed, and I shouldn't try to be serious in reply, but you're wrong in vaguely interesting ways so...

still a loser

Won an outright majority for the SNP in a PR-ish voting system for Holyrood that was assumed to lock in ineffectual (usually Lib-Lab) coalition governments indefinitely. That was a big win, and the main reason the independence referendum even happened.

eventually people saw sense

For all my roughly twenty years of paying attention to polls on Scottish attitudes to self-governance, support for independence has been pretty consistently in the low- to mid-30s. The Yes campaign wasn't the one-man Salmond band that it was sometimes portrayed in the English media, but he can take some of the credit for hauling the Yes vote up to nearly 45% when it mattered. Trying to characterize it as a mass romantic delusion that ran out of steam when voters finally examined the facts is plain silly.

There was even a study that indicated that when people were given more information about the referendum they were more likely to vote yes.

can take generations to eradicate such nonsense

Intrigued by a tweet I saw today, I've been trying to dig out some proper numbers on the generational breakdown of the vote. Unfortunately there was no exit poll, which is the gold standard for this kind of thing (actual ballots being secret, of course), but given that the pollsters' results were accurate even to the point of their "don't knows" providing a fair guide to the 15% of no-shows at the polling stations, I'm prepared to put a bit more faith than usual in their other numbers.

Each polling company seems to use different age bands to break down their data but they all show that younger age groups consistently voted Yes and it was only a landslide No vote from the over-55/over-60/over-65 contingent that dragged the overall result back to No. Give it another generation and it seems likely that the Yes vote will only be stronger.

(I have a hypothesis that the vote came out as Yes in Glasgow and surrounding areas partly because life expectancy means that the over-65 age group is much smaller there, but no existing poll data is detailed enough to back that up.)

I appreciate that Salmond quite often comes across badly on TV, particularly to English ears, but his achievements with the SNP and the broader independence movement have been astonishing.

 

[DavePage]

So Sami goes up one, who is favourite to be their next manager

 

[larus]

Honourable thing to do. Total respect. Looked a broken man this morning. And why not? Scotland voters just blew a once in a generation chance to control their own destiny. He must be pig-sick.

Perhaps they realised they get a lot more from the uk than they put in. But some people are too thick to realise that and espouse cheap jingoistic slogans.

 

[Jimmy Come Lately]

Perhaps they realised they get a lot more from the uk than they put in. But some people are too thick to realise that and espouse cheap jingoistic slogans.

And Salmond realised that cheap jingoistic slogans would do no better than the narrow "It's Scotland's Oil" campaign of the 70s, which is part of why he was instrumental in getting the SNP to promote a more inclusive and optimistic vision of independence for Scotland. As a result, the independence debate was about much more than some balance of payments calculation of what Scotland contributes to or extracts from the rest of the UK, and all the healthier for it.

 

[portlock seagull]

Fishing indeed, and I shouldn't try to be serious in reply, but you're wrong in vaguely interesting ways so...



Won an outright majority for the SNP in a PR-ish voting system for Holyrood that was assumed to lock in ineffectual (usually Lib-Lab) coalition governments indefinitely. That was a big win, and the main reason the independence referendum even happened.



For all my roughly twenty years of paying attention to polls on Scottish attitudes to self-governance, support for independence has been pretty consistently in the low- to mid-30s. The Yes campaign wasn't the one-man Salmond band that it was sometimes portrayed in the English media, but he can take some of the credit for hauling the Yes vote up to nearly 45% when it mattered. Trying to characterize it as a mass romantic delusion that ran out of steam when voters finally examined the facts is plain silly.

There was even a study that indicated that when people were given more information about the referendum they were more likely to vote yes.



Intrigued by a tweet I saw today, I've been trying to dig out some proper numbers on the generational breakdown of the vote. Unfortunately there was no exit poll, which is the gold standard for this kind of thing (actual ballots being secret, of course), but given that the pollsters' results were accurate even to the point of their "don't knows" providing a fair guide to the 15% of no-shows at the polling stations, I'm prepared to put a bit more faith than usual in their other numbers.

Each polling company seems to use different age bands to break down their data but they all show that younger age groups consistently voted Yes and it was only a landslide No vote from the over-55/over-60/over-65 contingent that dragged the overall result back to No. Give it another generation and it seems likely that the Yes vote will only be stronger.

(I have a hypothesis that the vote came out as Yes in Glasgow and surrounding areas partly because life expectancy means that the over-65 age group is much smaller there, but no existing poll data is detailed enough to back that up.)

I appreciate that Salmond quite often comes across badly on TV, particularly to English ears, but his achievements with the SNP and the broader independence movement have been astonishing.

More sober, a lot of what you write is of course true. Don't like him but he's an admirable man and I'd buy him a pint I'm sure. Might have a OJ myself

 

[Soulman]

Sorry, I'm fishing. No offence. Beyond Alex Salmon is a bit irritating. And a loser. I stand by that. Says so in the poll.

It was all a red herring anyway, a sprat to catch a mackerel to get more powers in Scotland. The floating bloaters voted no, now Cameron has sold us down the river Scotland are no longer the minnows, we've been done up like a kipper.