Alcohol age laws

[PILTDOWN MAN]

the person buying the alcohol is still breaking the law and can get an on the spot fine its called proxy selling. i think a first offence is £80.

Not the case. As long as you do not act as an agent no law is broken.

 

[Spiros]

The biggest problem with this country is nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore, and the lily-livered response from today's politicans whenever they're faced with a tough subject like, booze, drugs, burkhas etc is too often "we need to have an open debate on the topic".

Bollocks to that. It's very simple; either the price of booze goes up so that the cost of drinking is prohibitive (as in Scandinavian countries), or people start drinking responsibly.

I favour the latter course of action, with FAR tougher penalties for binge-drinking troublemakers.

You're right in that the key is responsibility. In Spain (so I'm told) parents are still responsible for the actions of their kids until they are 18. So if a 16 year-old Spaniard goes out and causes trouble it's his parents that are in the dock as well. Consequently they want to know what their kids are up to.

The big problem with our culture is that because there is no accountability for the actions of your kids some parents just let their kids go feral once they pass the age of about 12 (or even earlier). It's not just drinking, it's vandalism and other anti-social behaviour.

If the law made parents responsible for the actions of their kids up to 18 then they would be far more interested in where they were and what they were up to.

 

[Gwylan]

If the law made parents responsible for the actions of their kids up to 18 then they would be far more interested in where they were and what they were up to.

That sounds great in theory but there are more than 100,000 looked-after kids in the UK (ie kids in care or adoptees). These kids tend to have much higher than average rates of truancy, tend to have lower education results and tend to be more often involved in crime. Would the local authority be held responsible every time one of these offended? And who would adopt 'difficult' children if they were liable to be hit with a heavy fine?

The government is already kite-flying some crazy scheme for fining parents a £1000 for any misbehaviour in school and I don't see how that would work with looked-after kids.

And even with kids who live with parents, what are you going to do? Fine them? And if they don't pay it and go to prison, the kids go into care and can carry on doing what they did - this time with no recourse whatsoever - unless you start sending kids to young offender units for necking a can of lager.

I really can't the punitive approach working - as others have said, it needs an attitude change throughout society, something I can't really see happening.

 

[8ft_legs]

Having worked in Sainsbury's part time for the last ten months, I find certain rules regarding the sale of age restricted products to be frankly ridiculous, the main one that annoys me is the fact that someone who is under 18 cannot buy a bow of liquor chocolates purely because they contain a very tiny percentage of alcohol ( around 0.5% i believe).

 

[drew]

Ideally, anyone causing drink related trouble should be barred from all premises serving alcohol and given a curfew for all town centres. They should also be banned from purchasing any from shops/off licences. There should be zero tolerance

The problem with alcohol is that there are too many who can't handle it without getting aggresive. Take them out of the equation and most of the problem would be solved.

 

[IndianaPaul]

Currently working for Sainsbury's this is a very hot topic. With each sale of an age restricted product, (be it alcohol, lottery, dvd's, etc) you have to apply a process where you assess if the customer or customers look old enough to buy that product. Currently most major supermarkets apply a Think 25 policy, where no matter what age restricted product you are buying, you must look 25 and over. Anyone who looks under will be asked for ID. In this instance to the letter of the training we receive at Sainsbury's, ASDA are correct. If a 'group' of people come to a checkout and a number of the group look under 25, they must all produce ID. Clearly the cashier in this instance classed the parent and child as a group and as the child could not produce ID it was refused. Obviously this was a close call due to who the alcohol was apperntly for. I think that you have to take each instance on its own merits and assess who the product YOU BELIEVE is for (thats what we do anyway).

If it was a test purchase by police officer then it would be the cashier who is fined and not the company. That is why the policy is enforced, as the company have a right to protect the colleague from this.

On another note, Sainsbury's online deliveries don't deliver to ANYONE who is under 18. A good example of this is the TWAT we know better as Norman Baker, who frequently leaves his underage daughter at home with his credit card and with alcohol in the shopping!!!!

Hope this makes sense!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The law has recently been changed
■Alcohol must not be sold to anyone under 18.
■It is also an offence to sell alcohol to a person over 18 if you know that it is being purchased for a person under 18.
■A person under 18, working at a premise which is licensed to sell alcohol for consumption off the premises (e.g. off licence, supermarket), cannot sell alcohol unless the sale has been approved by a person over 18.
■It is also an offence for an adult to purchase alcohol on behalf of a minor (proxy sales). The government takes this so seriously the fine has been raised from £1000 to £5000 in the New Licensing Act
■The actual seller (sales assistant), all the licensees and the Company all could be prosecuted which may result in a fine of up to £5,000.
■It may also lead to the licensee losing their licence.
■Fixed Penalty notices may also be given.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

If the Police or Trading Standards do a test purchase and you fail you are personally given a £80 FPN. This leads to loads more test purchases being done over the following 3 months and 2 further failures means the license to sell alcohol is withdrawn for a set period.

 

[Robbie G]

My friend once bought alcohol in Sainsbury's when he was 18 and i was 17 (it was for him not for me). The security guard asked if we both 18 and I said no. So he told me I should wait outside whilst my friend could make the purchase, absolutely ridiculous.

I'd rather supermarkets etc were stricter with alcohol sales than not. Though a change in drinking culture really is needed, rather than targeting supermarkets, making them out to be the bad guys. Having worked in a supermarket, you always get parents buying alcohol for their kids, but when you ask them, they'll just say it's for them.

 

[Spun Cuppa]

Look at most towns and there are loads of shops basically selling booze and little else

It's Aldous Huxley's soma personified, 'cos the alternative is...

'Talkin' about a revolution...............'

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

When the legal drinking age in Scotland is raised to 21 all the supermarkets will implement a UK wide policy of asking anyone who looks under 30 for ID.

 

[severnside gull]

Never thought I would say it but I do think that drunkeness in public - especially young kids - has increased massively in recent years and there is a public cost to that so action needs to be taken.

Gotta say I think the time has come to take alcohol off the streets - ban drinking in unlicenced public places and require the police to confiscatate and destroy on the spot. Tolerance for drunkenness in public places should be replaced by automatic on the spot fines (cash or credit card) with obligatory nights in multi occupancy "drunk pens" at the local nick for those who wont or cant play ball (followed by the same fine or an automatic additional night in jail). This will drive drinking indoors and maybe parents who suffer the results will start parenting instead of turning a blind eye and blaming others. Ditto drug use....not a solution by any means but it will, in a fairly short space of time, reduce fear on the streets caused by drunken loutish behaviour by people of all ages and allow the police to focus on real crimes.

 

[clapham_gull]

BBC NEWS | England | Sussex | Store stops father buying alcohol

I had this recently when I was in ASDA in Eastbourne with a mate of mine who is 17 who was off to a house party so (with his mothers permission) i was getting him a couple of tins. The woman on the checkout said I can't buy the alcohol unless he has ID as well.

Now I can understand it to an extent because there are definitely too many under age kids drinking in the streets but surely the only way to reasonably stop that is for the Police to stop the kids who are doing it and trace where they got the booze from?

I was always under the impression that if you are drinking in someone's private home there are no minimum ages for drinking alcohol (or it might be 5 or something daft)? Is this not the case? If it is surely this rule that supermarkets are imposing is crazy? So long as they don't sell it to someone underage, after that it's up to the consumer what they do with it shirley?

Don't want to imply that either of you are irresponsible, but I think the supermarket was bang on.

I was thinking about this the other day. When we were that age (actually younger) we used in drink in the odd local pub, usually with a pint in the corner.

It was a perfectly clear arrangement.

The landlord knew we were underage, we knew the landord knew, but there was unwritten but acknowledged rule that if there was even a peep out of us we would out the door sharpish and not welcome back.

It wasn't so much respecting alcohol, but more respecting the other people in the pub.

Now, I'm not suggesting we start letting 14 year olds in pub, but our drinking was done alongside people much much older than us, who we respected and wouldn't have though twice about talking back to.

Seemed to work.

 

[beorhthelm]

i've witnessed this a couple of time, one which developed into a full scale row/stand off with security and manger. we need to stop kids buying alcohol but effectively baring people from buying a couple of bottles of wine with the weekly shop isnt going to help - ironically at the same time as the row, a group of lads strolled through with a couple of cases of beer without even being asked for ID. i have a theory with is relating to perrsons from certain demographics who are being very keen to apply the guidelines.

I was thinking about this the other day. When we were that age (actually younger) we used in drink in the odd local pub, usually with a pint in the corner.

It was a perfectly clear arrangement.
...
It wasn't so much respecting alcohol, but more respecting the other people in the pub.

yep. it was quite common. used to often drink all over Lewes and the county, at 16-17, never asked once for ID because we got a couple of pints (not bottles, or vodka tonics or other fluffy drinks) and sit quietly(ish) and look the part.

 

[Race]

You're right in that the key is responsibility. In Spain (so I'm told) parents are still responsible for the actions of their kids until they are 18. So if a 16 year-old Spaniard goes out and causes trouble it's his parents that are in the dock as well. Consequently they want to know what their kids are up to.

The big problem with our culture is that because there is no accountability for the actions of your kids some parents just let their kids go feral once they pass the age of about 12 (or even earlier). It's not just drinking, it's vandalism and other anti-social behaviour.

If the law made parents responsible for the actions of their kids up to 18 then they would be far more interested in where they were and what they were up to.

i think in spanish countries they have more of a deterrant as well i.e they have security guards patrolling with batons to give you a few whacks with. also, if the local police are called then not only are you liable to get a few whacks but maybe a bit of a shoe-ing and if the guarda seville get involved then its drinking through a straw time. none of this 'i've got rights' bollocks.

 

[Gully]

When the legal drinking age in Scotland is raised to 21 all the supermarkets will implement a UK wide policy of asking anyone who looks under 30 for ID.

Funny you should mention that, I was in Sainsbury's this afternoon and noticed that the little divider thingys on the check-outs contained a notice warning people that they may be asked to prove that they are over 25...which did seem a bit of an excessive way to prove that you were over 18...but I guess that explains why!

 

[clapham_gull]

i think in spanish countries they have more of a deterrant as well i.e they have security guards patrolling with batons to give you a few whacks with. also, if the local police are called then not only are you liable to get a few whacks but maybe a bit of a shoe-ing and if the guarda seville get involved then its drinking through a straw time. none of this 'i've got rights' bollocks.

I'm been travelled around a lot of the major cities in Spain Guy, and I've never really seen people pissed up like I see in Clapham most weekends.

I think it's a Nothern European thing to be honest.

Funnily enough when the sun comes out over here, you tend to see people acting a bit far more responsibly.

I honestly believe there's a difference between the sun is out lets have a few beers and enjoy the day, rather than I've had a f*cking rough week at work I'll think I'm going to absolutely shit faced on Friday night.

I'd be interested to see the stats of Friday/Saturday night against Sunday afternoon over here, which is a bit more of the get pissed and relax attitude you tend to see in Spain.

 

[Race]

absolutely agree with you there but my point is that there doesn't seem to be a deterrant for over stepping the mark. the courts are a joke in this country and people have the feeling that they can get away with things. what caused you or i to stay out of trouble?

 

[Gully]

Another observation, which does seem a bit strange...whenever I go into the town centre of a weekend and see people fighting, pissing and puking in the street...they are almost always white...wonder why that is?

 

[clapham_gull]

absolutely agree with you there but my point is that there doesn't seem to be a deterrant for over stepping the mark. the courts are a joke in this country and people have the feeling that they can get away with things. what caused you or i to stay out of trouble?

Well personally I put it down to growing up in a village, where if you stepped out of mark absolutely everyone would have known about it. Plus I always had respect for people older than me.

I'm not sure that the courts or any other deterrent would have the slightest effect.

It's simply about having respect for other people, those usually a bit older who have been there seen it and done it.