[News] Alastair Campbell expelled.

[Mo Gosfield]

Perhaps including myself? You haven't ever seen me disputing it. What I do dispute is the lies, the illegal spending, the missing postal votes, and corruption.

That statement applies to every election/referendum since time began.
There used to be a saying....." How can you tell when a politician is telling lies "....answer...." Their mouth is open " Its how they get elected. They rely on the naive, ill-educated, self-interested and just plain stupid to believe them. They say whatever they think they need to say to get elected and rely on most to have forgotten what they said once they are in power. A manifesto isn't worth the tissue paper it is written on.
What you are railing about is nothing new. It always happens and always will. Its about getting over the finishing line. Its not about being honourable and truthful. Politics is a dirty business and the smartest and slickest usually win and in 2016 they did and its not their fault that the other side were too complacent.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Anyone got any important Bizniz meetings this afternoon?

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Really? I don't think you've looked very hard!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-deal-opinion-poll-theresa-may-a8831241.html

I'm very sceptical of polling these days, especially when the demographic of leave voters tend to be less politically active generally and they are still disproportionately done using the internet - but I take your point, although I believe other polls have also suggested it remains neck and neck (not got time to research them to back up my point!).

I have no doubt that a second referendum could go in favour of remain by a relatively small margin, but I don't think that would massively alter the situation we're in or resolve matters. We'd be looking at 48% of the country voting leave instead of 52%. And Farage could peddling his Nazi-esque "stab in the back" myth some more, and create a further move towards the right in our politics.

I wasn't really intending to be speculating too much on a second referendum anyway - and just to be clear I would 100% vote remain if there was one - but just trying to argue the case that, if Corbyn's Labour need to appeal to a broad spectrum of support and gain the middle ground, there's a very good argument that some sort of (reluctant) compromise over Brexit should be part of that. It seems to me that everyone is shouting at the Labour leadership for not taking any pragmatic middle ground positions, but then when they do, that's not ok either. I'm not even a Labour voter by the way!

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[drew]

Anyone got any important Bizniz meetings this afternoon?

I'm about to have meetings with an global Plc regarding weekly supply shipments!

 

[Weststander]

View attachment 110614

That’s astonishing. Over half of paid up members did not vote for their party.

 

[Chicken Run]

Anyone got any important Bizniz meetings this afternoon?

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, in addition to my duties at my house I will have further such meetings later today.

 

[drew]

I'm about to have meetings with an global Plc regarding weekly supply shipments!

Ok, back from Tesco now so anything important happened? Has London Irish opened his eyes yet?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Perhaps including myself? You haven't ever seen me disputing it. What I do dispute is the lies, the illegal spending, the missing postal votes, and corruption.

That statement applies to every election/referendum since time began.
There used to be a saying....." How can you tell when a politician is telling lies "....answer...." Their mouth is open " Its how they get elected. They rely on the naive, ill-educated, self-interested and just plain stupid to believe them. They say whatever they think they need to say to get elected and rely on most to have forgotten what they said once they are in power. A manifesto isn't worth the tissue paper it is written on.
What you are railing about is nothing new. It always happens and always will. Its about getting over the finishing line. Its not about being honourable and truthful. Politics is a dirty business and the smartest and slickest usually win and in 2016 they did and its not their fault that the other side were too complacent.

I agree with your last points but feel that your first point could be a bit more nuanced.

There are plenty of politicians I don't agree with and some I rather dislike but I don't agree that real politics is all identical to The Thick Of It. There are loads of decent hard working MPs. Yes they have to toe the party line, but that is the deal when you join a party and sing up to its manifesto.

You can go too far, of course. You could argue that Corbyn is the only honourable senior politician at present, for always voting with his conscience (600 plus times voting against his own party). However, if he were equally relaxed about Campbell et all voting strategically 'against labour' it would be much easier to take Corbyn seriously. So, he is honest, but at worst a hypocrite, and at best, a bit of a dick. Boris, for different reasons, is undoubtably a dick and at best a hypocrite. He also has a dangerous trait missing in Corbyn - charm.

But back to my reply, there are plenty of dull and decent MPs, and councellors, attempting to curate our politisphere (run the country) while, at the same time, keeping voters (not all of whom are not eejits) sufficiently onside to vote them back into their elected positions long enough to get something done.

You would eliminate at a stroke the influence of the mad and bad politician by one simple change to the system. Get rid of elections. Make the role of MP or Councellor a job you train for, apply for, get interviewed for, and are contracted to do.. There's something to ponder!

My personal preference is to retain democracy, but require the potential elector to pass some competancy tests before getting voting rights. I have not yet thought a great deal about what constitutes competancy, to be honest. The reason being it is never going to happen so why bother.

So, rejoice in our democracy. It is the best we will ever likely get.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I feel rather sorry for Alastair Campbell,someone who actually sincerely believes in something,however mistaken in his belief,thrown to the lions,very publicly.

Yeah, but he's right though. If the architect of 3 Labour GE wins starts voting Lib Dem then all hope is lost for Corbyn and his supporters.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Really? I don't think you've looked very hard!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-deal-opinion-poll-theresa-may-a8831241.html

Yes, but have they become cleverer by switching from Leave to Remain. Are they still racist ?