[News] Alabama - Women's rights

[dingodan]

I deeply sympathize with any women facing an unwanted pregnancy but I cannot accept that the solution to the situation is to kill the unborn child. We either believe that all human life is precious and deserving of protection, or we don't, and that is a pretty important decision IMO. A fetus is human and it's alive, so it is a human life. I don't think this issue can be made only about the rights of the mother, the way I see it a pregnant woman is responsible for two people.

An unwanted pregnancy can be a source of tremendous hardship and trauma for the woman involved, and I would support anything which would go some way to alleviating those things, but I have to draw the line at killing the unborn child.

I also think that we have a blind spot for the trauma women go through after they have had an abortion. Many feel a sense of grief and a need to mourn, but we are required to pretend that it wasn't a life, that's how we justify abortion in the first place, so it's hard (for society) to then validate those feelings of loss many women experience without at the same time undermining our support for abortion in the first place. Which makes it a suffering which is rarely acknowledged.

 

[The Clamp]

There is only one outcome with an abortion.

If you think that's worth celebrating it says a lot about those people celebrating it with glee.

What would you think of people who celebrated a law that allowed people to shoot dead anyone who stepped onto their property? Would you think them a tad warped?

They are not celebrating the termination of a foetus. And well you know it.

 

[highflyer]

We either believe that all human life is precious and deserving of protection, or we don't

It's NEVER that simple though is it?
If we all really believed that, then world would be a very different place, in so many ways.

'The closer that human life is to me...and the more that human looks like me... the more precious and deserving of protection it becomes' seems to be the general rule of thumb.

 

[DH12]

I deeply sympathize with any women facing an unwanted pregnancy but I cannot accept that the solution to the situation is to kill the unborn child. We either believe that all human life is precious and deserving of protection, or we don't, and that is a pretty important decision IMO. A fetus is human and it's alive, so it is a human life. I don't think this issue can be made only about the rights of the mother, the way I see it a pregnant woman is responsible for two people.

An unwanted pregnancy can be a source of tremendous hardship and trauma for the woman involved, and I would support anything which would go some way to alleviating those things, but I have to draw the line at killing the unborn child.

I also think that we have a blind spot for the trauma women go through after they have had an abortion. Many feel a sense of grief and a need to mourn, but we are required to pretend that it wasn't a life, that's how we justify abortion in the first place, so it's hard (for society) to then validate those feelings of loss many women experience without at the same time undermining our support for abortion in the first place. Which makes it a suffering which is rarely acknowledged.

The word child is being used loosely, and emotively. There obviously has to be a line in terms of how late a woman has an abortion, but the point of this entire thread is that even in cases of rape and incest, in the eyes of the law a woman will be considered a murderer if she manages to get an abortion, even in another state. Do you really agree with that?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

They are not celebrating the termination of a foetus. And well you know it.

They literally are. It's the only outcome of an abortion.

Be pleased a law is passed, show some class and don't jump around like you've won the lotto.

 

[dingodan]

It's NEVER that simple though is it?
If we all really believed that, then world would be a very different place, in so many ways.

'The closer that human life is to me...and the more that human looks like me... the more precious and deserving of protection it becomes' seems to be the general rule of thumb.

I agree entirely.

Whether or not it was your intention, you made my point even better than I could have.

 

[The Clamp]

They literally are. It's the only outcome of an abortion.

Be pleased a law is passed, show some class and don't jump around like you've won the lotto.

They really aren't. But I know from your history on here, there will be absolutely no way of getting that through to you so I won't waste my time.

 

[The Clamp]

I deeply sympathize with any women facing an unwanted pregnancy but I cannot accept that the solution to the situation is to kill the unborn child. We either believe that all human life is precious and deserving of protection, or we don't, and that is a pretty important decision IMO. A fetus is human and it's alive, so it is a human life. I don't think this issue can be made only about the rights of the mother, the way I see it a pregnant woman is responsible for two people.

An unwanted pregnancy can be a source of tremendous hardship and trauma for the woman involved, and I would support anything which would go some way to alleviating those things, but I have to draw the line at killing the unborn child.

I also think that we have a blind spot for the trauma women go through after they have had an abortion. Many feel a sense of grief and a need to mourn, but we are required to pretend that it wasn't a life, that's how we justify abortion in the first place, so it's hard (for society) to then validate those feelings of loss many women experience without at the same time undermining our support for abortion in the first place. Which makes it a suffering which is rarely acknowledged.

For most of the pregnancy a foetus isn't sentient. It's a collection of cells. Removing it is not murder.

 

[dingodan]

The word child is being used loosely, and emotively. There obviously has to be a line in terms of how late a woman has an abortion, but the point of this entire thread is that even in cases of rape and incest, in the eyes of the law a woman will be considered a murderer if she manages to get an abortion, even in another state. Do you really agree with that?

Rape & Incest account for 1.5% of all abortions in the U.S.

I'm not sure what your view is exactly, if you are saying that you oppose the other 98.5% but feel that the 1.5% shouldn't be opposed then that is a fair argument which can be had.

But if you also feel that the other 98.5% are Ok too, then you shouldn't try to use the very very few extreme cases as a means to justify the rest.

 

[The Clamp]

A woman can do whatever they want with their own body. Obviously a time limit should be maintained for abortion. The English abortion laws are, as far as I know, absolutely correct. I would rather a child never be born than be born into a situation where it is neither loved nor wanted.

 

[Bulldog]

I have always struggled with this massive moral dilemma.

How can it ever be right to legaly extinguish an unborn human life ?

How can it ever be right to legally force a woman to carry a child against her will and that she doesn't want?

To achieve either one, you remove the rights of the other.

I still don't know where I stand but I would normally support woman's rights, but does that mean I support killing babies? FFS how the hell do you answer that question.

The only option, as Thunder Bolt pointed out, is contraception. Proper sex education at school, easy to get contraceptives, the morning after pill available on a no questions asked basis, getting boys to accept their share of responsibility for prevention, anything that prevents unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Problem is the religious types oppose contraception as well and that really doesn't help solve the problem.

 

[Klaas]

For mine to a certain date should be allowed for abortions.

The disturbing thing is the glee in which many of these women that represent the pro-abortion side of things show when a law goes their way.

Who takes joy from killing a life? It should always be a solemn thing even in a law based victory.

Disgusting how they celebrate it like it's a joyous moment.

What a warped, ****ed up take.

Hardly surprising coming from you though.

 

[The Clamp]

What a warped, ****ed up take.

Hardly surprising coming from you though.

Well put.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I have always struggled with this massive moral dilemma.

How can it ever be right to legaly extinguish an unborn human life ?

How can it ever be right to legally force a woman to carry a child against her will and that she doesn't want?

To achieve either one, you remove the rights of the other.

I still don't know where I stand but I would normally support woman's rights, but does that mean I support killing babies? FFS how the hell do you answer that question.

The only option, as Thunder Bolt pointed out, is contraception. Proper sex education at school, easy to get contraceptives, the morning after pill available on a no questions asked basis, getting boys to accept their share of responsibility for prevention, anything that prevents unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Problem is the religious types oppose contraception as well and that really doesn't help solve the problem.

You're right up to the last sentence. It is only Roman Catholics who oppose contraception, not all religious 'types'.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Alabama's state congress has voted to ban abortion.
The decision will go to the Supreme Court which is likely to throw it out, but not as likely as before Trump.

The Republican Party stalled and refused all of Obama's attempted appointments but was able to get 2 Trumpian nominees through, so now the Supreme Court is rather right leaning.


Here's a picture of the 22 Alabama senators who voted against including an exception for rape or incest in the abortion law.

Can you see the connection:-

View attachment 109679


Stat world in the UK is pretty good, I can see why others might think the UK is going to the dogs.
But blimey we must seem like the most enlighten progressive forward thinking nirvana on earth when compared to this shit show,

What is the connection?

 

[Klaas]

What is the connection?

Are you on an E?

 

[beorhthelm]

I have always struggled with this massive moral dilemma.

How can it ever be right to legaly extinguish an unborn human life ?

i'll help you here - there a point before which there is no tangible "life". technically life doesnt start until birth, so the discussion is flawed in semantics, though park that. there is unquestionably a point before which no wonder of medical intervention would possibly sustain the fetus. in this period it would seem there is no dilemma to have unless people want to make one based on external beliefs.

 

[TSB]

Why are all the ex-pats in Australia, right-wing loons?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

 

[Gwylan]

I'm a bit surprised that a smart lawyer hasn't picked up on the idea that a foetus is a human life and argued that if a foetus is legally a child, then the mother should be able to claim child support from conception. I really don't see how that can be argued against, I'm rather amazed that it's not been legally tested