[News] Alabama carries out first nitrogen gas execution

[portlock seagull]

Indeed but sentencing is a whole other discussion that I think we can all agree on. However, the practical argument is that our existing prisons are bulging at the seams and will struggle to lock up increased numbers for longer periods. Build more prisons seems the logical solution but where is the funding for that coming from? Increased taxes?

In other countries they sometimes clearout a load of murders etc by chucking them out of aircraft over deep jungle….but we don’t have any jungle here do we?

 

[Albion my Albion]

There's only one man I want to given the death penalty and he is a former US President. If it takes a civil war to rid him from my country so be it. And I am deadly serious.

 

[Questions]

How do Dignitas manage to do it quite so efficiently with the minimum of fuss?

Not sure that modern day executions are meant to be painful and that is want Americans want.

I’ve heard that no doctor can administer the poisons that kill in the States because of the oaths they take so it’s left to others. So as you day how does Dignitas go about it. I should know because I am a regular donater to the assisted dying charities
Edit : In general, Dignitas uses the following protocol to assist death: an oral dose of an antiemetic drug, followed approximately half an hour later by a lethal overdose of 15 grams of powdered pentobarbital dissolved in a glass of water. If necessary, the drugs can be ingested through a drinking straw.
Pentobarbital used as a sedative, a preanesthetic, and to control convulsions in emergencies.[2] It can also be used for short-term treatment of insomnia but has been largely replaced by the benzodiazepine family of drugs.

 

[METALMICKY]

Any excuse but here's a nice little song all about the electric chair

 

[chip]

That's an assumption.

And if it were correct, why not kill everyone who fails to be rehabilitated?

It boils down to whether you consider barbarism and murder justified. If you do, then it makes sense to kill every criminal.

If you think that's a bit too much, then you are presumably going to advise on where to draw the line.

At this point you would be demonstrating the arrogance of a 'god', presuming to judge who is fit to live and who must die.

And of course you can do all that without having to dirty your hands, or even give it much thought. Just vote for 'Suella' and she can decide who lives and who dies, on your behalf.

Fair point, it would have been better if I had said no evidence and I know that absence of evidence ...

I think your argument is flawed though because all states accept that killing other people is justified in certain circumstances. It's certainly within the human condition to kill one another so we have to accept that we might have an element of barbarism in all of us. Maybe that's even why we are here? Of course we get stuck on definitions and there is a difference between murder and lawful killing. But even that depends on the societal context. Many here have claimed "the government are killing people" for example. I suspect that I just don't put as much value on individual lives as you do, and that may be down to events/experiences that give rise to a more nihilistic outlook. So, I do think some crimes deserve the death penalty, it's just my opinion, there is no correct answer and a society could change its mind over time many times. There are no absulte truths are there (except that I will not be voting for Suella)?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

So, in my opinion, there are some people, very few, that are beyond all redemption. I would not put Lee Rigbys killers in that group, just based on the act of his murder.
Soldier F will face a murder trial for the Bloody Sunday killings, I don't think he should be executed if found guilty either.
Ian Huntley is the person that comes to mind for me, where I see no reason for him to remain breathing, however, he has tried several times to commit suicide, so it seems a death penalty would be his preference. What would you choose for him, give him what he wants, death, or force him to continue living a fairly miserable existence?
For me, society does not want him, he does not want to be alive, and it would suit everyone if he were dead, so it should be done. But that allows him an escape from his punishment, so some would say he has avoided full justice.

What about Jon Venables and Robert Thompson - 10 year-olds when they murdered Jamie Bulger.
Both tried and convicted of murder aged 11.
After 8 years in a juvenile detention centre they were freed with new identities.
Jon Venables has subsequently reoffended and is currently locked-up.

Would those advocating the death penalty consider this action right or wrong? i.e. should they have both been "permanently eliminated" for their crime?

 

[tedebear]

Genuine question.

Your child's is violently stabbed and has their head chopped off by machete? The offender is caught in the act and there is CCTV too.
Are you happy for the offender to spend life in prison and to be released for being well behaved?
Or would you prefer their life to be taken, so there is never any chance of them doing it on release? In their life being taken you wouldn't want to see the suffer?
If there's an issue with how, it's done them let the family decide.

Yes, I'm happy for the offender to spend their life in prison. Prison sentences need to be addressed, life means life. Never to be released. I cannot condone doing to the offender what they did to my child. It makes me no better than them and would never bring my child back. The offender deserves to live in the pain that I will forever live with.

However life must mean life, with no priviledges.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Fair point, it would have been better if I had said no evidence and I know that absence of evidence ...

I think your argument is flawed though because all states accept that killing other people is justified in certain circumstances. It's certainly within the human condition to kill one another so we have to accept that we might have an element of barbarism in all of us. Maybe that's even why we are here? Of course we get stuck on definitions and there is a difference between murder and lawful killing. But even that depends on the societal context. Many here have claimed "the government are killing people" for example. I suspect that I just don't put as much value on individual lives as you do, and that may be down to events/experiences that give rise to a more nihilistic outlook. So, I do think some crimes deserve the death penalty, it's just my opinion, there is no correct answer and a society could change its mind over time many times. There are no absulte truths are there (except that I will not be voting for Suella)?

Interesting points. Yes, killing is justified - when someone is trying to kill you, or we are at war. I have no problem with that.

I do, however, perhaps put a great deal of value on human life outside of the realms of lethal jeopardy, but I'm happy with that.

You might be able to make a case for The Greater Good (which is how we justify killing in wars) to justify judicial capital punishment, but as I implied, we don't have to move too far away from stringing up paedophile murderers who refuse to recant before we start to get into crimes where views on the appropriate punishment vary.

And, as far as miscarriages of justice leading to erroneous execution is concerned, I also appreciate (but do not agree with) the stance of the former lord chief justice who refused to consider the Guildford 4 and Maguire 7 appeals on the grounds that if they had succeed it would have brought British justice into disrepute. And had we hanged them at the time nobody would be attempting to overturn the convictions. You will recall that all these convictions were eventually overturned, yet there are some conservatives who feel that it would have been better to keep these innocent men in jail (or put on the gibbet).

I suppose that is the defining reason why I disapprove of conservatism - the belief in the pursuit of the greater good over the rights of individuals, especially the frail - and I mean the right to not be falsely imprisoned, or (like the post office people) deprived of their livelihoods, not the libertarian right to hunt and kill animals, beat one's children, and indulge in Johnsonian social onanism.

So, yes, I regard reintroduction of capital punishment as the start of a slippery slope, whose benefits can never justify the risks. I hope we never get that referendum that the tories occasionally contemplate because, without a doubt, the public would bring back hanging.

I enjoyed that chat, even if (by dint of the forum) it was a sequence of monologues.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, I'm happy for the offender to spend their life in prison. Prison sentences need to be addressed, life means life. Never to be released. I cannot condone doing to the offender what they did to my child. It makes me no better than them and would never bring my child back. The offender deserves to live in the pain that I will forever live with.

However life must mean life, with no priviledges.

Yes. I agree there should be a punishment element of prison. Books to read, but not TVs or phones, or drugs.

But that means spending money.

And I note that a proportion of prisoners cannot read. Music for them, then. Carefully selected.

But managing that means spending money.

And I understand that many prisoners have mental health issues. It would make sense to address them so that if they are eventually released (I appreciate but don't agree with the view that all criminality, however minor, should result in a life sentence, so most of them will be released eventually) they are less likely to reoffend.

But that means spending money.

Also, no bullying, putting someone in a cell to be assaulted by their cellmate, racially abused on a daily basis, etc.. Baseline human dignity. Without which, many minor criminals are trained at the university of prison to become beasts who, when released, will up their agenda, becoming more ruthless and dangerous.

But that means spending money.

And what about increasing police activity in the realm of crime prevention and catching criminals? For some crimes such as burglary, the police don't bother investigating.

But to deal with that means spending money.

So because we love a tax cut, and don't want any money spent on criminals, we end up with tory governments who bang up petty criminals where many become brutalized and made animalistic in prison, allowing the tories to crow about the boxes they have ticked ('more prisoners than ever before!) while ignoring the harm they are perpetuating. A bit like the Brexit wheeze, but arguably much more pernicious.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Blimey, some folk do like the sound of their own voice.

 

[Perkino]

There are some horrid things that happen around the world and are legal in those lands. However, if a society is going to award the death penalty then surely there are cheaper and quicker ways to administer it

 

[Questions]

What about Jon Venables and Robert Thompson - 10 year-olds when they murdered Jamie Bulger.
Both tried and convicted of murder aged 11.
After 8 years in a juvenile detention centre they were freed with new identities.
Jon Venables has subsequently reoffended and is currently locked-up.

Would those advocating the death penalty consider this action right or wrong? i.e. should they have both been "permanently eliminated" for their crime?

Even when we had the death penalty they would not have been hung. The Bentley case highlights everything that can go wrong with it all. A young man with a handicap ( albeit undiagnosed ) convicted and then hung although already in police custody apparently when his accomplice shot the copper. He never hung because he was underage. I’m not really an advocate of capital punishment although I might feel differently if anyone close to me were killed. In fact I know I would,

 

[WATFORD zero]

Blimey, some folk do like the sound of their own voice.

And some folks are absolutely desperate to be heard but incapable of contributing any more than one line or a thumbsup

 

[WATFORD zero]

Even when we had the death penalty they would not have been hung. The Bentley case highlights everything that can go wrong with it all. A young man with a handicap ( albeit undiagnosed ) convicted and then hung although already in police custody apparently when his accomplice shot the copper. He never hung because he was underage. I’m not really an advocate of capital punishment although I might feel differently if anyone close to me were killed. In fact I know I would,

He did hang despite having a mental age of 11 and being innocent. His conviction was eventually quashed in 1998, 45 years after the state wrongly killed him.

If that is right, at what age do you think we should be allowed to kill innocent people ? Sorry if i've misunderstood

 

[Baldseagull]

Even when we had the death penalty they would not have been hung. The Bentley case highlights everything that can go wrong with it all. A young man with a handicap ( albeit undiagnosed ) convicted and then hung although already in police custody apparently when his accomplice shot the copper. He never hung because he was underage. I’m not really an advocate of capital punishment although I might feel differently if anyone close to me were killed. In fact I know I would,

I am hung, people executed with a noose are hanged.

 

[Questions]

I am hung, people executed with a noose are hanged.

He did hang despite having a mental age of 11 and being innocent. His conviction was eventually quashed in 1998, 45 years after the state wrongly killed him.

If that is right, at what age do you think we should be allowed to kill innocent people ? Sorry if i've misunderstood

I think you know what I meant. It was a case that clearly highlighted why the death penalty is or was wrong. Would our society make those mistakes now ?
Probably we find a way.

 

[METALMICKY]

How about we advise the Yanks to make their criminals watch episodes of Mrs Brown's Boys on a loop? Madness or the desire to slit ones own wrists surely beckons

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think you know what I meant. It was a case that clearly highlighted why the death penalty is or was wrong. Would our society make those mistakes now ?
Probably we find a way.

That's why I said about misunderstanding. I thought I probably had

 

[Albion my Albion]

I am hung, people executed with a noose are hanged.

 

[Questions]

That's why I said about misunderstanding. I thought I had

but for advocates of thise who want it brought back I don’t think Valdo Calocane would have been hanged,