[News] Alabama carries out first nitrogen gas execution

[Perfidious Albion]

Capital punishment is not a deterrent, but to many people it is fair. It must be carefully used and reserved for the worst cases and where the evidence is overwhelming. I don’t believe it is the wrong thing to do.
America seems to struggle with a suitable method. I remember when Britain used the death penalty by hanging. When properly done it is instant and reliable. There never used to be any mess ups, at least none we heard of...

 

[DJ NOBO]

Your child is inconveniently at the scene of a violent murder, tries to help the victim but ends up covered in blood. Courts convict them and they get executed. How do you feel now?

If you feel that much about eye for an eye, then carry out the reciprocal crime yourself, don't expect the state, in our name, do it for you.

Don’t take this is as a criticism Drew, you’ve made some good points in this thread. As have some others with a different opinion (imo).

But why don’t you try answering Brighton Dave’s question, at face value?

It’s an interesting one as it forces antis to see a murder directly, rather than standing back with a political perspective.

FWIW I wouldn’t want the death penalty in this country but also bristle at those that write off all pro-death penalty people as bloodthirsty morons.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Don’t take this is as a criticism Drew, you’ve made some good points in this thread. As have some others with a different opinion (imo).

But why don’t you try answering Brighton Dave’s question, at face value?

It’s an interesting one as it forces antis to see a murder directly, rather than standing back with a political perspective.

FWIW I wouldn’t want the death penalty in this country but also bristle at those that write off all pro-death penalty people as bloodthirsty morons.

It’s a very complicated issue.
I agreed with someone earlier about being vehemently against the death penalty. One of my main reasons is, if it came to it, would I be prepared to pull the lever, administer the injection, flick the switch myself, and the answer to that is very firmly no. And I wouldn’t want to have anyone else doing it on my behalf.

 

[METALMICKY]

No execution is pleasant it’s not meant to be , but that is what the Americans want ,
if they are going to execute someone , don’t know why they just don5 use a firing squad, it’s quick and efficient

How do Dignitas manage to do it quite so efficiently with the minimum of fuss?

Not sure that modern day executions are meant to be painful and that is want Americans want.

 

[brighton_dave]

You haven’t really thought this through have you?

It is more costly to execute someone than keeping them in prison to serve a life term when everything is taken into account

Costs

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Goodness that's an early reply.
Never seen this Article. Still it's mad if applying it to a murder such as that of Lee Rigby. There shouldn't be any need for such hurdles. The decision from the off is death penalty.
I'm not advocating it for every murder, just those where we 100% know the killer & murder was the intent. There are many cases where there is no risk of the individual being innocent.
I'm sure many people would like revenge for the animals raping and murdering children in warzoness at the moment. Would the same arguments be applied there? We allow them to live their lifes with no revenge whatsoever.
I personally don't understand the views that essentially want to protect such individuals. That really doesn't sit right with me. I don't follow any religion, which I guess may be behind some of the views.

 

[Jackthelad]

But that is very much a matter of opinion, as is evidenced by this thread.

and for anyone who rolls out the “eye for an eye” argument, the Bible also says “Thou shalt not Kill”, and does not add “unless authorised to do so by the state.

It's a good point and one that is debated in religious communities. But The Bible also says that everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities. And Islam says much the same in obeying the authority of the land you live in. There has always been an ongoing argument within Christian communities how much of The Old Testament laws are valid. But I think most would be against capital punishment outside of America. The evidence in New Testament seems quite clearly against it.

 

[brighton_dave]

Ladies/Gents I'm exiting the thread. We all have our own views and which is right or wrong is down to individual opinion.
I will be at the ladies fixture tonight, just look for the guy with devil horns.
Enjoy your weekends, don't wish Tuesday to come to soon!

 

[WATFORD zero]

How do Dignitas manage to do it quite so efficiently with the minimum of fuss?

Not sure that modern day executions are meant to be painful and that is want Americans want.

Well given that everybody on this thread seems to be in agreement that the main driver of wanting the death penalty is revenge not deterrent, then I would think for those advocating it the more painful, the better

(A simple atheist's view)

 

[GT49er]

You haven’t really thought this through have you?

It is more costly to execute someone than keeping them in prison to serve a life term when everything is taken into account

Costs

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

A report about the American justice system, by an organisation called the Death Penalty Information Center [sic] - yes, well, that will be completely unbiased won't it. In America, yesterday's victim was kept on death row for over 20 years. That in itself, leaving aside the cost added to the alleged cost of an execution, is in many ways more inhumane than the actual execution.
Anyway, if put out to contract, I'm sure Group 4 or Securicor could do it for a lot less than £1 billion!

N.B. This is not suggesting they should be offered a chance to tender. Although I must say that as a keen supporter of abolition back in the 1960s, with some of the evil in the world these days, I am starting to question that.

 

[Baldseagull]

Goodness that's an early reply.
Never seen this Article. Still it's mad if applying it to a murder such as that of Lee Rigby. There shouldn't be any need for such hurdles. The decision from the off is death penalty.
I'm not advocating it for every murder, just those where we 100% know the killer & murder was the intent. There are many cases where there is no risk of the individual being innocent.
I'm sure many people would like revenge for the animals raping and murdering children in warzoness at the moment. Would the same arguments be applied there? We allow them to live their lifes with no revenge whatsoever.
I personally don't understand the views that essentially want to protect such individuals. That really doesn't sit right with me. I don't follow any religion, which I guess may be behind some of the views.

So, in my opinion, there are some people, very few, that are beyond all redemption. I would not put Lee Rigbys killers in that group, just based on the act of his murder.
Soldier F will face a murder trial for the Bloody Sunday killings, I don't think he should be executed if found guilty either.
Ian Huntley is the person that comes to mind for me, where I see no reason for him to remain breathing, however, he has tried several times to commit suicide, so it seems a death penalty would be his preference. What would you choose for him, give him what he wants, death, or force him to continue living a fairly miserable existence?
For me, society does not want him, he does not want to be alive, and it would suit everyone if he were dead, so it should be done. But that allows him an escape from his punishment, so some would say he has avoided full justice.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How do Dignitas manage to do it quite so efficiently with the minimum of fuss?

Not sure that modern day executions are meant to be painful and that is want Americans want.

It's an overdose of anaesthetic, in the same way as animals are euthanised.

 

[DJ NOBO]

I would want them dead. I wouldn’t feel the need to see them actually die or knowing they died in pain . But i suspect knowing they were dead would help me move on.

 

[Sheebo]

Totally against the death penalty here - just doesn’t sit right - 2 wrongs and all that. That said, if Ian Huntley or someone like that dies, I don’t give it my usual respect…

 

[chip]

I used to be anti death penalty but now think some people just can't exist in society and cause problems when incarcerated. I don't accept the argument that it has no place in a civilised society, that seems to me just an emotional response is only temporaly relevant - there have been many civilisations, most quite barbaric. There are clearly situations when the state will have to make certain people extinct. I would have no problem, for example, with paedophile child killers being executed as there is no possibility of rehabilitation. My surprise with this case is the method just seems absurd.

 

[METALMICKY]

It's an overdose of anaesthetic, in the same way as animals are euthanised.

So why don't the Yanks use a similar method? Earlier in this thread I doubted someone's assertion that they wanted to inflict pain. Maybe I'm wrong.

Just to qualify my position I'm against the death penalty for a number of reasons but the primary one being that posthumous pardons are no good to anyone. One mistake is one too many.

As for the pro death penalty argument that nailed on cases are OK is there not an argument that you are letting people off lightly? That seems a paradoxical statement but I would rather there lives be made a living hell by uncomfortable incarceration. That means no fur lined prisons with tv, games consoles and well equipped gyms. Have them do pointless repetitive physical tasks like moving heavy boulder from point A to point B and back. Ultimately, if their life is so tough that they end up taking their own life then fine by me. And don't forget some terrorists might welcome execution as it's perceived as martyrdom for their cause.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Like this you mean?


People like to use a bit of Latin in their arguments - they think it makes them look clever but in this instance, it is an ‘acyrologia‘ ( ) because there is no ‘per se’ about it, @WATFORD zero has already answered you (several times in fact) : specifically, (not in principle or for its own sake) that the argument against CP is a/ it is not a deterrent (one of the functions of the criminal justice system) and b/ innocent people can be wrongly convicted (one of the dysfunctions of the criminal justice system)

I think if you start quoting OT biblical texts literally, selectively and ignoring historical context, you are on unstable ground - The OT also says homosexuality is punishable by death (Lev 20:13), do not make false charges and kill innocent people (Ex 23:7), and in several places, orders the babies of Israel’s enemies to be ‘dashed against the rocks’ and pregnant women’s bellies ‘ripped open’ etc 1 Sam 15:2-3, Hos 13:16.

I will add:
There is no proof that CP deters criminals in fact, the certainty of being caught is a more powerful deterrent than the punishment - in other words, those committing a crime will already have made a cost:benefit analysis based on whether the risk of getting caught is higher than the benefit of the crime.

The death penalty is inhumane (botched executions) , doesn’t address the causes of crime and is biased against those from minority backgrounds and disabled people; It also doesn’t save the taxpayer money - in the States research has shown: “The median cost of a non-death penalty case (through the end of incarceration) is $740,000 while the median cost of a death penalty case through execution is a striking $1.26 billion”.

Very well argued.

It won't make a jot of difference to his etiolated 'mind', though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I used to be anti death penalty but now think some people just can't exist in society and cause problems when incarcerated. I don't accept the argument that it has no place in a civilised society, that seems to me just an emotional response is only temporaly relevant - there have been many civilisations, most quite barbaric. There are clearly situations when the state will have to make certain people extinct. I would have no problem, for example, with paedophile child killers being executed as there is no possibility of rehabilitation. My surprise with this case is the method just seems absurd.

That's an assumption.

And if it were correct, why not kill everyone who fails to be rehabilitated?

It boils down to whether you consider barbarism and murder justified. If you do, then it makes sense to kill every criminal.

If you think that's a bit too much, then you are presumably going to advise on where to draw the line.

At this point you would be demonstrating the arrogance of a 'god', presuming to judge who is fit to live and who must die.

And of course you can do all that without having to dirty your hands, or even give it much thought. Just vote for 'Suella' and she can decide who lives and who dies, on your behalf.

 

[fly high]

So why don't the Yanks use a similar method? Earlier in this thread I doubted someone's assertion that they wanted to inflict pain. Maybe I'm wrong.

Just to qualify my position I'm against the death penalty for a number of reasons but the primary one being that posthumous pardons are no good to anyone. One mistake is one too many.

As for the pro death penalty argument that nailed on cases are OK is there not an argument that you are letting people off lightly? That seems a paradoxical statement but I would rather there lives be made a living hell by uncomfortable incarceration. That means no fur lined prisons with tv, games consoles and well equipped gyms. Have them do pointless repetitive physical tasks like moving heavy boulder from point A to point B and back. Ultimately, if their life is so tough that they end up taking their own life then fine by me. And don't forget some terrorists might welcome execution as it's perceived as martyrdom for their cause.

Think the pharmaceutical companies stopped letting them have the drugs as they didn't want to be involved.

I totally agree about the risk of innocent people being excluded. However it does make me think when someone has committed a particularly heinous crime, why should they be allowed to live, also when convicted murders are back out after 10 years, OK under licence but they are still free to resume their lives.

 

[pasty]

However it does make me think when someone has committed a particularly heinous crime, why should they be allowed to live, also when convicted murders are back out after 10 years, OK under licence but they are still free to resume their lives.

I think this is a big reason why many pro death penalty people are so pro.

I am vehemently anti death penalty, but do think that “life” should mean, life.

 

[METALMICKY]

I think this is a big reason why many pro death penalty people are so pro.

I am vehemently anti death penalty, but do think that “life” should mean, life.

Indeed but sentencing is a whole other discussion that I think we can all agree on. However, the practical argument is that our existing prisons are bulging at the seams and will struggle to lock up increased numbers for longer periods. Build more prisons seems the logical solution but where is the funding for that coming from? Increased taxes?