[Albion] Ajax Goal Celebrations - Beer Throwing Bans?

[Sid and the Sharknados]

if nobody owned trousers then nobody would shit their pants..... taking beer in to stand was predictably going to end up with some thrown in the air and some plastic cups being thrown around.

Nobody has to throw beer in the air, any more than they have to throw tea, coke/pepsi, bovril, water or whatever pie they happen to have in their hand when we score.
People who do it are twats, regardless of whether they get no punishment or they get their goolies sanded off.

 

[rippleman]

Something I found a bit odd after reading the Dogma report was that "the accused" was told a disciplinary meeting was going to be held but he wasn't invited to attend the meeting. As an employer I couldn't hold a disciplinary meeting for one of my staff and not allow that member of staff to attend (with representation if requested).

A "real" disciplinary meeting would have to provide evidence of whatever the accused had done and the accused would have the right to challenge that evidence, and offer mitigation.

If the club are going to mete out such heavy-handed punishments for such trivial offences then at least do it openly and transparently.

- provide the accused with the evidence
- allow the accused to question witnesses
- allow the accused to call witnesses of their own
- allow the accused to attend the disciplinary meeting
- allow the accused to challenge the evidence
- allow the accused to offer mitigation.


Didn't Dick Knight, who saved the club get banned for the same offence of "bringing BHAFC into disrepute"? We should have realised then that if the club can ban the man who saved the club, then none of us are really safe.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If our fans had stuff luzzed at them from above, I'd want our club to protest much as Ajax have done.

All these precious twats whining because they're getting what is a trivial 5 match ban for throwing pints of beer at opposing fans can get in the fücking bin. Don't like 5 match bans? Don't act like a cünt then.

Post of the thread

I remember all the whining when the breathalyzer came in from all the entitled drink drivers, back in the day. Loads of shit about 'holding my drink' and 'knowing my limits'. Far cough.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Something I found a bit odd after reading the Dogma report was that "the accused" was told a disciplinary meeting was going to be held but he wasn't invited to attend the meeting. As an employer I couldn't hold a disciplinary meeting for one of my staff and not allow that member of staff to attend (with representation if requested).

A "real" disciplinary meeting would have to provide evidence of whatever the accused had done and the accused would have the right to challenge that evidence, and offer mitigation.

If the club are going to mete out such heavy-handed punishments for such trivial offences then at least do it openly and transparently.

- provide the accused with the evidence
- allow the accused to question witnesses
- allow the accused to call witnesses of their own
- allow the accused to attend the disciplinary meeting
- allow the accused to challenge the evidence
- allow the accused to offer mitigation.


Didn't Dick Knight, who saved the club get banned for the same offence of "bringing BHAFC into disrepute"? We should have realised then that if the club can ban the man who saved the club, then none of us are really safe.

The Albion have the right to withdraw access to the Amex for whatever reason they see fit. Arguably they should reimburse any up front payments where being guilty of something is contestable. But that's all..

 

[Simster]

How many Ajax fans been caught and banned causing trouble at Brighton station? Just asking

There has always been a separation of responsibility. Clubs can only be held responsible for who they let into the stadium.

Again though, if those Ajax morons had got month long prison sentences for breach of the peace and public disorder, that would be their fault. Any Ajax fan on their forum saying "it's so awful to get a month inside just for throwing a plastic mat and when we went to Athens we didn't complain when a coach was bricked" would probably be met by a bunch of sane Ajax fans effectively telling them to take responsibility for their own actions, regardless of moronic behaviour from Greeks.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

How many Ajax fans been caught and banned causing trouble at Brighton station? Just asking

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The Albion have the right to withdraw access to the Amex for whatever reason they see fit. Arguably they should reimburse any up front payments where being guilty of something is contestable. But that's all..

They can, and they do. It's private property. And they're monitoring you far more closely than you might think

 

[drew]

@drew 2/1/2017, if that is what you’re asking me.

So there was no luzzing because beer wasn't allowed in the seats.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I'm saying that neither are right, but we are seeing a channel of anger because this has made the news; Marseille didn't and therefore no one cared.

You keep saying, "I’m not saying it’s right" [to luzz beer]. Just to be clear, are you saying it’s wrong? You can’t quite bring yourself to state that.

Something I found a bit odd after reading the Dogma report was that "the accused" was told a disciplinary meeting was going to be held but he wasn't invited to attend the meeting. As an employer I couldn't hold a disciplinary meeting for one of my staff and not allow that member of staff to attend (with representation if requested).

A "real" disciplinary meeting would have to provide evidence of whatever the accused had done and the accused would have the right to challenge that evidence, and offer mitigation.

If the club are going to mete out such heavy-handed punishments for such trivial offences then at least do it openly and transparently.

- provide the accused with the evidence
- allow the accused to question witnesses
- allow the accused to call witnesses of their own
- allow the accused to attend the disciplinary meeting
- allow the accused to challenge the evidence
- allow the accused to offer mitigation.


Didn't Dick Knight, who saved the club get banned for the same offence of "bringing BHAFC into disrepute"? We should have realised then that if the club can ban the man who saved the club, then none of us are really safe.

It’s not odd at all. You’re being too influenced by the word 'disciplinary'. This was obviously an internal meeting and clearly not an employee-style disciplinary investigation.

Second, the bloke admitted he threw beer (though it wasn’t clear if this included the plastic glass or not). So all this stuff about questioning witnesses and seeing evidence is quite superfluous.

 

[Questions]

And these days, if you say you're English......

Yeah if you say you’re English

 

[Questions]

As long as you only spilled the beer itself, and didn’t actually launch the glass at her, you ought to escape a 5 (10) night ban.

I’d love a 10 night ban….

 

[Wardy's twin]

Nobody has to throw beer in the air, any more than they have to throw tea, coke/pepsi, bovril, water or whatever pie they happen to have in their hand when we score.
People who do it are twats, regardless of whether they get no punishment or they get their goolies sanded off.

No they don't have to but drinking fans + beer in hand + brighton goal = mayhem

As it stands it looks like the individual might have been chucking beer + plastic container at the opposition which makes it a step up from 'luzzing' beer and that's where line was drawn and it looks increasingly like Ajax/EUFA were involved so club's hands were tied.

I guess there were others and they might be banned as well.

Club needs to make it VERY clear for AEK and perhaps just say no beer in stands , its not like we aren't used to it.

 

[Tfitz12]

You keep saying, "I’m not saying it’s right" [to luzz beer]. Just to be clear, are you saying it’s wrong? You can’t quite bring yourself to state that.


It’s not odd at all. You’re being too influenced by the word 'disciplinary'. This was obviously an internal meeting and clearly not an employee-style disciplinary investigation.

Second, the bloke admitted he threw beer (though it wasn’t clear if this included the plastic glass or not). So all this stuff about questioning witnesses and seeing evidence is quite superfluous.

I do agree it is wrong.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Something I found a bit odd after reading the Dogma report was that "the accused" was told a disciplinary meeting was going to be held but he wasn't invited to attend the meeting. As an employer I couldn't hold a disciplinary meeting for one of my staff and not allow that member of staff to attend (with representation if requested).

A "real" disciplinary meeting would have to provide evidence of whatever the accused had done and the accused would have the right to challenge that evidence, and offer mitigation.

If the club are going to mete out such heavy-handed punishments for such trivial offences then at least do it openly and transparently.

- provide the accused with the evidence
- allow the accused to question witnesses
- allow the accused to call witnesses of their own
- allow the accused to attend the disciplinary meeting
- allow the accused to challenge the evidence
- allow the accused to offer mitigation.


Didn't Dick Knight, who saved the club get banned for the same offence of "bringing BHAFC into disrepute"? We should have realised then that if the club can ban the man who saved the club, then none of us are really safe.

Banned himself didn’t he?

 

[Wardy's twin]

There was beer luzzing, certainly, but there is one key difference...

In Marseille, home fans weren't situated below the Albion fans facilitating luzzing down at them, so the luzzing that did take place only impacted other Albion fans.

It seems those (and we don't know how many it is) who have been reprimanded after the Ajax game, were caught luzzing, intentionally or otherwise, at the Ajax fans in the lower tier below where the Albion fans were situated.

Agreed. I did post earlier that there was more to this than just a spontaneous out break of beer in the air and did witness beer/glass going over the front perspex screen.

 

[dazzer6666]

No they don't have to but drinking fans + beer in hand + brighton goal = mayhem

As it stands it looks like the individual might have been chucking beer + plastic container at the opposition which makes it a step up from 'luzzing' beer and that's where line was drawn and it looks increasingly like Ajax/EUFA were involved so club's hands were tied.

I guess there were others and they might be banned as well.

Club needs to make it VERY clear for AEK and perhaps just say no beer in stands , its not like we aren't used to it.

Alcohol is banned in all football stadia in Greece (confirmed in the club comms).

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I do agree it is wrong.

Fair enough.

 

[Tfitz12]

That's utter, utter nonsense.

There are a wide range of views on this thread ranging from "It's nothing - the club have over-reacted" - similar to your own standpoint - all the way through to "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

As I said in my long post some pages back, if opposing fans at the Amex threw things at Albion fans, I would absolutely expect Albion to raise it with the opposing club, and I would hope the opposing club takes measures against those identified.

So, when Ajax reported this to the Albion, and will undoubtedly raise this with UEFA, the club absolutely have to be seen to be taking action. Doing nothing - and that's what a mere verbal warning will look like - is not an option for the club here.

I feel massive sympathy for anyone who got carried away, in what was one of this club's finest every nights, but I can also understand why the club have taken the action they have.

I think this is what I keep coming back to, I feel sorry the individual who got banned.

In my eyes, kicked out the game and missing the next home game is probably fair enough given the circumstances, another 5 game sets an interesting precedent. The bans given for passing on tickets worked as it is a measured decision to pass on a ticket to someone else, policing celebrations on the other hand could prove harder to monitor regardless of the deterrent.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think this is what I keep coming back to, I feel sorry the individual who got banned.

In my eyes, kicked out the game and missing the next home game is probably fair enough given the circumstances, another 5 game sets an interesting precedent. The bans given for passing on tickets worked as it is a measured decision to pass on a ticket to someone else, policing celebrations on the other hand could prove harder to monitor regardless of the deterrent.

Think the critical factor in all this is the ejection from the ground and handing over to our stewards……that’s what has led to the action, effectively forcing the club’s hand a bit. Pity the Ajax steward didn’t simply give a ‘final’ warning first instead of jumping straight to chucking him out.

 

[Horses Arse]

Something I found a bit odd after reading the Dogma report was that "the accused" was told a disciplinary meeting was going to be held but he wasn't invited to attend the meeting. As an employer I couldn't hold a disciplinary meeting for one of my staff and not allow that member of staff to attend (with representation if requested).

A "real" disciplinary meeting would have to provide evidence of whatever the accused had done and the accused would have the right to challenge that evidence, and offer mitigation.

If the club are going to mete out such heavy-handed punishments for such trivial offences then at least do it openly and transparently.

- provide the accused with the evidence
- allow the accused to question witnesses
- allow the accused to call witnesses of their own
- allow the accused to attend the disciplinary meeting
- allow the accused to challenge the evidence
- allow the accused to offer mitigation.


Didn't Dick Knight, who saved the club get banned for the same offence of "bringing BHAFC into disrepute"? We should have realised then that if the club can ban the man who saved the club, then none of us are really safe.

You are correct, none of us are really safe from that happening. If you are unlucky enough to be ejected from an away ground, and the reason for that could be extremely trivial, then you will be banned. You are wholly in the hands of the away stewards and what they consider to be acceptable or non acceptable.

That is what can kill the atmosphere, it isn't about whether throwing beer enhances the atmosphere - of course it doesn't, its a shit thing to do. The issue I have is the apparent black and white ejection = ban. So we all need to be think about how we behave, check the emotion and be wary. I held my kids back from the pitch invasion when we were promoted becaused of my experience - my kids were mightily pissed off but I was convinced there would be bans until the pitch was full.

Thankfully the vast majority of stewards at away games are pretty good, have a decent tolerance and will speak with you if they are seeing things that they don't like. But there is no warning for when you come across a complete twat who wants to find reason to eject someone - when that happens dont expect your club to give a shit. It's happened to me, its happened to someone else more recently by the sounds of it, excluding this instrance which may/may not have involved chucking a glass full of beer at the ajax fans.

Those veiwing a 5 game home ban (so 10 games) as trivial will get a nasty shock - it is far from trivial and you'd have to be a massive twat or compeltely unintersted in the Albion to think otherwise.