Air Miles

[Cowfold Seagull]

That'll have been business class.....not much different from economy on short haul to be honest, just slightly bigger seats and a better meal (or now, any meal !). Not worth the extra money/miles really. As regards the lounge, not really all 'posh *******' to be honest, it's usually a right mix of people - with the vast majority travelling on company business so from all walks of life.

Even the seats on most business class flights within Europe are standard economy in size nowadays, but normally with the middle seat being left free. Often the leg room is identical to economy too.

 

[kingcole]

Never buy airmiles/avios.

At best, I value them at 1p each but they are typically sold for about 1.6p each. The most you can buy is 100,000 so for a long haul first class this simply can't be achieved.

But in answering the OP. You would need 240,000 for a trip to LA. Even if you could buy this many (which you can't) they would cost £3880. You then have the taxes which are about £550.

You should be able to get a ticket for less that £4400 (less than half that amount if you are willing to start your journey outside the UK)

And if you buy a ticket you will earn Avios and status with the airline too.

The only time I would ever condone buying airmiles would be if you were a few short of what was needed for a big trip.

 

[dazzer6666]

Even the seats on most business class flights within Europe are standard economy in size nowadays, but normally with the middle seat being left free. Often the leg room is identical to economy too.

Yup.....they just move the dividing screen backwards/forwards depending on how many BC seats they've sold. The first few rows on the newer planes have middle seats that are adaptable, with a fold-down table in the seat back so it can either be a seat, or a shared table for the seats either side if they are used as business class. For anything up to 2-3 hours there's no way I'd pay the extra for that and a couple of free drinks and a meal, but I'll take it if offered as a free upgrade

 

[kingcole]

Typically Oz will have blackout dates for all of Dec/Jan ... and then very limited availability at other times. Points junkies are all over these popular destinations often booking multiple routes on the day they are released (nearly a year in advance) and then cancelling those they don't want once they've decided what they want to do. The airlines recognise it but as they are their most frequent travellers (hence having so many points/miles) they don't do anything about it

BA Don't have blackout dates. They commit to releasing 2 seats in business and 4 in economy for every flight. I think it's 350 days before and they go on around 1am.

For popular destinations like OZ you may have to book the outbound without the return, booking the return when that is in the 350 day window.

 

[kingcole]

Yup.....they just move the dividing screen backwards/forwards depending on how many BC seats they've sold. The first few rows on the newer planes have middle seats that are adaptable, with a fold-down table in the seat back so it can either be a seat, or a shared table for the seats either side if they are used as business class. For anything up to 2-3 hours there's no way I'd pay the extra for that and a couple of free drinks and a meal, but I'll take it if offered as a free upgrade

Agreed. In fact you will have more room getting an exit row in economy. Short haul business is a disgrace.

Sometimes it's offered for around £70. Now, if you need to check bags, don't have the status for lounge access it can be worth it. Also, it might been that you need some extra tier points it offers to jump up a status band too.

Row 1 is the only row with decent legroom, but you prob won't get these unless you have status anyhow.

 

[Ernest]

Not at all. I've posted quite a lot on my use of Virgin miles on the thread linked to elsewhere here.

....and as I type this I'm on the phone to book 4 * Premium Ecnomy returns to Orlando with Virgin flying out next week, all using miles. About £9000 worth of flights for a hell of a lot less than that!

How much do Virgin charge you for tax etc ?

 

[dazzer6666]

Never buy airmiles/avios.

At best, I value them at 1p each but they are typically sold for about 1.6p each. The most you can buy is 100,000 so for a long haul first class this simply can't be achieved.

But in answering the OP. You would need 240,000 for a trip to LA. Even if you could buy this many (which you can't) they would cost £3880. You then have the taxes which are about £550.

You should be able to get a ticket for less that £4400 (less than half that amount if you are willing to start your journey outside the UK)

And if you buy a ticket you will earn Avios and status with the airline too.

The only time I would ever condone buying airmiles would be if you were a few short of what was needed for a big trip.

Agree re buying them.......only time would be to make up a small shortfall

I've just looked at LA flights incidentally as planning a poss California break early next year - the new Avios spending methodology for BA has changed the numbers a bit. A peak return in First is now 200,000 (off peak 170,000 - taxes about £750)), but you can get an off-peak in economy for as little as 33,500 (plus about £550 in taxes of course)

 

[Bozza]

How much do Virgin charge you for tax etc ?

It's a few hundred quid. But with direct economy fares to Florida in the Summer holidays costing £800-£1000pp, it's a significant saving, although I'm not likely to ever pay c£2200 for a PE seat, let alone 4 at the same time.

It costs more to fly PE/Upper with miles than Economy (which is generally a waste of your miles) because APD is higher in non-economy cabins and kids have to pay the full whack too.

 

[Ernest]

It's a few hundred quid. But with direct economy fares to Florida in the Summer holidays costing £800-£1000pp, it's a significant saving, although I'm not likely to ever pay c£2200 for a PE seat, let alone 4 at the same time.

It costs more to fly PE/Upper with miles than Economy (which is generally a waste of your miles) because APD is higher in non-economy cabins and kids have to pay the full whack too.

I just used AVIOS to upgrade to Biz for the USA, cost me £1200 return incl. Just used Tesco Clubcard points , Clubcard credit points plus miles from previous trips etc. Everything I have collected would have been stuff I would have done anyway so it's getting things for free

 

[Rugrat]

BA Don't have blackout dates. They commit to releasing 2 seats in business and 4 in economy for every flight. I think it's 350 days before and they go on around 1am.

For popular destinations like OZ you may have to book the outbound without the return, booking the return when that is in the 350 day window.

They certainly did but they never published them. When I worked there (until fairly recently) the desire was always to get 2/4 seats as you suggest but Revenue Management would never provide them when they expected a flight to sell out early. Often the Avios people had to pay commercial fares to get seats when things got desperate (complaints)

 

[Bozza]

I just used AVIOS to upgrade to Biz for the USA, cost me £1200 return incl. Just used Tesco Clubcard points , Clubcard credit points plus miles from previous trips etc. Everything I have collected would have been stuff I would have done anyway so it's getting things for free

That sounds quite expensive. We flew Upper to Miami and back from Orlando last year using miles, and our cash cost was considerably less than that per person.

But, like you, I don't do anything special to collect miles other than use a particular credit card and shop at Tesco. Some stuff I wrote about it here: https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...-when-flying&p=8032267&viewfull=1#post8032267

 

[Ernest]

That sounds quite expensive. We flew Upper to Miami and back from Orlando last year using miles, and our cash cost was considerably less than that per person.

But, like you, I don't do anything special to collect miles other than use a particular credit card and shop at Tesco. Some stuff I wrote about it here: https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...-when-flying&p=8032267&viewfull=1#post8032267

I do online surveys as well, there was a sign up deal from the BA Executive Club that gave you bonus points on the first survey and it's easy to collect 2000 points a month doing them

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Yup.....they just move the dividing screen backwards/forwards depending on how many BC seats they've sold. The first few rows on the newer planes have middle seats that are adaptable, with a fold-down table in the seat back so it can either be a seat, or a shared table for the seats either side if they are used as business class. For anything up to 2-3 hours there's no way I'd pay the extra for that and a couple of free drinks and a meal, but I'll take it if offered as a free upgrade

Absolutely. There is no way l will pay the ridiculous sum for a business class flight to Europe now. A total waste of money.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

I do online surveys as well, there was a sign up deal from the BA Executive Club that gave you bonus points on the first survey and it's easy to collect 2000 points a month doing them

Goodness gracious me Enrest. You can be quite sane if you want to be.

 

[kingcole]

That sounds quite expensive. We flew Upper to Miami and back from Orlando last year using miles, and our cash cost was considerably less than that per person.

But, like you, I don't do anything special to collect miles other than use a particular credit card and shop at Tesco. Some stuff I wrote about it here: https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...-when-flying&p=8032267&viewfull=1#post8032267

Ah but [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] will have only used 25,000 miles each way instead of the 80k for a full redemption. And he will earn miles on the revenue part of the booking. That's a difference of 110000 miles. Considering the taxes would have been £500+ he has spent £700 more buy saved 110000 miles. That's good business as I'd value those miles saved at over £1000.

 

[Bozza]

Ah but [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] will have only used 25,000 miles each way instead of the 80k for a full redemption. And he will earn miles on the revenue part of the booking. That's a difference of 110000 miles. Considering the taxes would have been £500+ he has spent £700 more buy saved 110000 miles. That's good business as I'd value those miles saved at over £1000.

Avios is a bit of a mystery to me as I've said before!

 

[dazzer6666]

Ah but [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] will have only used 25,000 miles each way instead of the 80k for a full redemption. And he will earn miles on the revenue part of the booking. That's a difference of 110000 miles. Considering the taxes would have been £500+ he has spent £700 more buy saved 110000 miles. That's good business as I'd value those miles saved at over £1000.

This....buying an economy flight and then using miles to upgrade is often the best value (because so much of the cost of an economy ticket is tax that you pay anyway). Just need to be sure that the class of ticket allows it (some of the cheapest economy tickets don't)

 

[kingcole]

This....buying an economy flight and then using miles to upgrade is often the best value (because so much of the cost of an economy ticket is tax that you pay anyway). Just need to be sure that the class of ticket allows it (some of the cheapest economy tickets don't)

With BA all WTP and Club tickets are upgradeable but the lowest priced economy ones are not, where as on Virgin the lowest priced Premium Economy fares are not upgradable with miles.

And of course, on Virgin, you can't upgrade from business/upper as they don't have First!

A couple of years ago on BA and before the Avios pricing changed you only needed 12500 miles to upgrade from Premium to Business. This was a bargain. Now it's at least 25,000 depending on whether it's deemed as peak or off peak. Ironically, a silver card holder on a trip to say LA (I keep using LA as the example) would earn more than 25,000 miles on the revnue part of the ticket, effetively making a one way upgrade free on every trip, subject to reward availability.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

That'll have been business class.....not much different from economy on short haul to be honest, just slightly bigger seats and a better meal (or now, any meal !). Not worth the extra money/miles really.

Not even bigger seats now on most European airlines. Just a guarantee of nobody having the middle seat and, as you say, a meal/snack and a free drink compared to economy. The only think I have seen enforced sometimes is that you also get access to the front toilet without letting the riff-raff from the back of the plane through.

I did use Business First on United in the US a couple of years ago which had the bigger seats. One of my flight legs was really short - Chicago to Indianapolis - and with a strong tailwind we were in the air for 28 minutes. I could feel those in economy glaring at me as I was served my complimentary drinks while they got nothing.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Not even bigger seats now on most European airlines. Just a guarantee of nobody having the middle seat and, as you say, a meal/snack and a free drink compared to economy. The only think I have seen enforced sometimes is that you also get access to the front toilet without letting the riff-raff from the back of the plane through.

I did use Business First on United in the US a couple of years ago which had the bigger seats. One of my flight legs was really short - Chicago to Indianapolis - and with a strong tailwind we were in the air for 28 minutes. I could feel those in economy glaring at me as I was served my complimentary drinks while they got nothing.

I felt the glares too and simply gave a look back like 'I'm just a pled like you'

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