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[Politics] Agreement in Gaza









Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
57,498
Faversham
Trump taking credit.

Let's see how he manages the peace.
 








Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
57,498
Faversham
Part of me thinks that Trump told Bibi a long time ago that he would not criticize Bibi's smiting, and Bibi could in effect do what he liked, so long as Bibi called a halt after Trump was elected. With a guarantee that if the mad Hamas nutters kicked off again, Trump would give support. But if it all worked out nicely it would be large G and Ts all round.

If I were Trump (with the complete lack of empathy the man enjoys) that would have been what I would have done.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
24,117
Brighton
Part of me thinks that Trump told Bibi a long time ago that he would not criticize Bibi's smiting, and Bibi could in effect do what he liked, so long as Bibi called a halt after Trump was elected. With a guarantee that if the mad Hamas nutters kicked off again, Trump would give support. But if it all worked out nicely it would be large G and Ts all round.

If I were Trump (with the complete lack of empathy the man enjoys) that would have been what I would have done.
I was impressed with Biden’s speech, he gave credit to the new administration and said they joined forces and spoke as one.

Really interesting analysis of the deal on 5live with all commentators agreeing that the Biden administration did all the leg work in getting the agreement in place but could not get it signed, principally, by Israel. As you state, the feeling is that Trump has had a word with Bibi. But it could have been a threat rather than them being in cahoots because this deal could have been announced when Trump is President rather than allowing Biden to take some credit. I think Bibi has handed Biden the peace trophy before Trump got his hands on it (although he is typically claiming 100% credit).

Let’s see how Trump ends the war in Ukraine that he first promised to solve prior to taking office, then gave himself 24hrs and has now indicated that it will take ‘100 days’.
 
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Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,367
It's no coincidence this has happened now. What a cynical world we live in.

Israel has simultaneously kept the Democrats and Trump / MAGA happy. Meanwhile, Ukraine and Russia stepping it up on the bombing front in the knowledge whoever is on top when Trump tunes in will be in pole position to win the peace.
 








borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
670
Biden getting shafted the same way Carter did. Big international crisis (Gaza hostages vs Iran hostages) mysteriously resolved in the very last days of their presidency after they've lost the election.
Biden could have ended the genocide ages ago but chose not to. That will be his legacy.

Now it's seems Trump has brokered a ceasefire behind the scenes but what has he promised Israel in return. I'm imagining it's not insignificant.
 


Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
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Oct 20, 2022
7,725
I’m afraid I am more circumspect than most:

There’s been numerous ceasefires over the decades between Israel and Gaza/Palestinian territories. Until there is a two state solution and the Palestinians are free from oppression and occupation, there will continue to be new outbreaks of violence which has been a feature of this ongoing conflict for over 75 years.

Hamas may be degraded but it is not eliminated and it’s ideology certainly isn’t - It has political leadership and fundraising capabilities in Qatar and Turkey and possibly a whole new generation of radicalised Palestinians who have lost fathers, mothers, babies, brothers and sisters in this latest war. Hezbollah just over the border in both Syria and Lebanon is degraded but also shares Hamas’ jihadist ideology and still has support of Iran. And nothing has been mentioned of the other terrorist organisations operating both in Gaza and further afield, including the Palestinian Jihadist Fundamentalists (who were holding some of the hostages themselves), the Houthis, ISIS and al-Qaeda and the rebel forces in Syria, of which designated terrorists, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) are the most powerful group - have they put their names to a ceasefire?

Possibly over 60,000 dead (the death toll could be 40% higher than the Hamas Health Authority have estimated) , Gaza bombed back into the stone-age and a humanitarian catastrophe and to what end?

Hamas was never going to be completely eliminated, not least because Hamas as an organisation is not confined to Gaza. Much of this most recent violence against the Palestinian people too has been about Netanyahu flexing his muscles against Iran to the Israeli public in order to get himself reelected and so avoid corruption charges and jail...

Netanyahu and his far right government are still in power and still committed to an expansionist agenda (with Trump’s endorsement) of building more settlements in the occupied West Bank (and more recently the Golan Heights on the Syrian side under the auspices of ‘protection’ against rebel forces following Assad being deposed). It is unlikely imo, that any peace proposals for two state solution will be very watertight with Bibi still in office.

The current ceasefire if it holds is vital to get aid in to Gaza and good news for Gazans - but releasing hostages and aid relief won’t be enough to hold the ceasefire in the long term for the reasons stated - if anything, this war has sown the seeds for an even worse conflict in the future for the hatred it has engendered because of it’s sheer brutality.

 


nickjhs

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 9, 2017
1,621
Ballarat, Australia
Trump taking credit.
To be honest I think this is fair. I can't stand the bloke but wanted him to win because I realised that as soon as he did things would change. He is an isolationist and does not want America drawn into wars. During the Obama admin there was constant talk of war with Russia and it was for the same reason I was utterly relieved when he was elected in 2016, immediately he took power the aggression toward Russia stopped, and it took Biden just over a year to provoke Putin into attacking Ukraine and starting a proxy war against Russia. Prior to Trump winning this time around war with Iran was just around the corner. Israel was bombing the shit out of Lebanon even attacking UN forces. As soon as Trump won there was a ceasefire announced with Hezbollah and all talk of war with Iran stopped. Say what you like about Trump, he may be a narcissistic, raping, megalomaniacal criminal, but one thing he is not is a warmonger, something that both Biden and Obama were (which is why Biden is flooding Ukraine with arms and munitions because he knows Trump will stop the flow and force a ceasefire) and it is for that reason I am so frigging relieved that they are no longer in power. That being said I would hate to live in the States under the Trump administration.
 




portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
18,144
Biden could have ended the genocide ages ago but chose not to. That will be his legacy.

Now it's seems Trump has brokered a ceasefire behind the scenes but what has he promised Israel in return. I'm imagining it's not insignificant.
Please, do you really believe that? Still, you’re not alone. Heard same on radio earlier from a conspiracist caller who was rightly mocked by the panel experts.
 






Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
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Apr 5, 2014
26,669
To be honest I think this is fair. I can't stand the bloke but wanted him to win because I realised that as soon as he did things would change. He is an isolationist and does not want America drawn into wars. During the Obama admin there was constant talk of war with Russia and it was for the same reason I was utterly relieved when he was elected in 2016, immediately he took power the aggression toward Russia stopped, and it took Biden just over a year to provoke Putin into attacking Ukraine and starting a proxy war against Russia. Prior to Trump winning this time around war with Iran was just around the corner. Israel was bombing the shit out of Lebanon even attacking UN forces. As soon as Trump won there was a ceasefire announced with Hezbollah and all talk of war with Iran stopped. Say what you like about Trump, he may be a narcissistic, raping, megalomaniacal criminal, but one thing he is not is a warmonger, something that both Biden and Obama were (which is why Biden is flooding Ukraine with arms and munitions because he knows Trump will stop the flow and force a ceasefire) and it is for that reason I am so frigging relieved that they are no longer in power. That being said I would hate to live in the States under the Trump administration.
Pretty much my view. Trump is an awful human being. And I think it will be a difficult time internationally for sane minded folk. But he's not a warmonger like others.

That said, the whole America First thing seems a bit hawkish.
 




AstroSloth

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2020
1,557
To be honest I think this is fair. I can't stand the bloke but wanted him to win because I realised that as soon as he did things would change. He is an isolationist and does not want America drawn into wars. During the Obama admin there was constant talk of war with Russia and it was for the same reason I was utterly relieved when he was elected in 2016, immediately he took power the aggression toward Russia stopped, and it took Biden just over a year to provoke Putin into attacking Ukraine and starting a proxy war against Russia. Prior to Trump winning this time around war with Iran was just around the corner. Israel was bombing the shit out of Lebanon even attacking UN forces. As soon as Trump won there was a ceasefire announced with Hezbollah and all talk of war with Iran stopped. Say what you like about Trump, he may be a narcissistic, raping, megalomaniacal criminal, but one thing he is not is a warmonger, something that both Biden and Obama were (which is why Biden is flooding Ukraine with arms and munitions because he knows Trump will stop the flow and force a ceasefire) and it is for that reason I am so frigging relieved that they are no longer in power. That being said I would hate to live in the States under the Trump administration.
Pretty much my view. Trump is an awful human being. And I think it will be a difficult time internationally for sane minded folk. But he's not a warmonger like others.

That said, the whole America First thing seems a bit hawkish.
It's not Trump being excellent at stopping war or wanting to keep the US out of wars (he's been threatening his own allies over Canada and Greenland already), it's that he bends over for Putin and Russia, especially as they helped him win at least the first election.

With the news Musk has been having direct calls with Putin, it's no doubt going to be the case that funding to Ukraine stops.
 


nickjhs

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 9, 2017
1,621
Ballarat, Australia
It's not Trump being excellent at stopping war or wanting to keep the US out of wars (he's been threatening his own allies over Canada and Greenland already), it's that he bends over for Putin and Russia, especially as they helped him win at least the first election.

With the news Musk has been having direct calls with Putin, it's no doubt going to be the case that funding to Ukraine stops.
Absolute nonsense. The previous democrat administration was hell bent on provoking a war with Russia. Starting with interfering in Ukrainian Politics leading to the coup in 2014 which then led to the new far-right regime treating the ethnic Russians living in Donetsk and Luhansk like sub humans which in turn led to the civil war. Had Clinton won there was no doubt in my mind that war in some form with Russia was inevitable such was the rhetoric, she didn't win and all that nonsense stopped. It took Biden just over a year to provoke Putin into invading, by baiting him with the threat of having a NATO member on his borders and bang the Democrats got their proxy war. The same shit happened in Syria, the same administration in an attempt to over throw Assad funded the Al Nusra Front which morphed into Isis. During his 4 years in office other than clean up the mess caused by creating Isis, and sending a few missiles into Syria as a warning against further attacks on their own civilians, trump took no part in warfare. Regarding Russia so pissed were they at the de-escalation the Democrats threw everything at Trump trying to prove he was a patsy of Putins, they couldn't find a bloody thing. He is not bending over to Putin he is an isolationist and does not want to waste resources and people in starting wars..
 


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