After how many passes from a set piece can a goal be considered from "open play"?

[Goldstone1976]

After how many passes from a set piece can a goal be considered from "open play"?

With a nod to an idea from El P on his "I would walk 500 miles" (or something) thread:

We have a set piece and some number of passes later we score (however unlikely that may seem). After how many passes can the goal be considered "from open play"?

For clarity: a pass from the set piece taker to Calde, who scores is classed as 1 pass.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

At what stage does 'garnish' become a 'side salad'?

 

[Goldstone1976]

Excellent - 3 votes, 3 answers. Anyone care to explain their view?

I went for 2. Logic: It has to be more than 1, because one could be just a 1 yard tap to someone beside a FK taker to get a direct line to goal without having to go over the wall. To me, this counts as part of the set piece. However, any more than 2 passes gives the opposition sufficient time to (re) organise their defence into a "normal" type situation and hence the "set piece" element of the defence is now over.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

"Open play" only happened when Poyet was manager. These days we have "This guy doesn't have a clue".

 

[Everest]

Excellent - 3 votes, 3 answers. Anyone care to explain their view?

I went for 2. Logic: It has to be more than 1, because one could be just a 1 yard tap to someone beside a FK taker to get a direct line to goal without having to go over the wall. To me, this counts as part of the set piece. However, any more than 2 passes gives the opposition sufficient time to (re) organise their defence into a "normal" type situation and hence the "set piece" element of the defence is now over.

How about a 1 yard tap to someone, who then stops the ball dead for someone else to score from the shot? 2 passes.

 

[MattBackHome]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

 

[Bold Seagull]

3 for me. 2 is obvious, a simply free kick to a player stood 2 yards away, a trap set up, then a shot from a 3rd player is a typical 2 touch set piece routine. Expand this and before the other team can really impact on the rehearsed set piece, a 3 touch is possible within the set piece routine, a corner taken short (1), back to the taker (2), who sets up a player to shoot (3) is again fairly regular for a set piece. More than 3 however and the opposition are impacting on the play to which any rehearsed set piece is now relying on improvisation, and the play is effectively open.

 

[Goldstone1976]

How about a 1 yard tap to someone, who then stops the ball dead for someone else to score from the shot? 2 passes.

I assume you voted for the "....you fool" option? You're quite correct, of course.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Can we have an option for "Please can we just score - don't care how!"

I would say it depends on where those passes are - 2 quick passes around the wall whilst it is still sort of formed would not count in my view. Also depends on where this set piece is - I suspect you mean near the penalty area. Don't think number of passes can judge it really - perhaps it should be if the opposition have touched the ball after the free kick then it is open play, although that does not always follow either.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

What about a free kick into the box, scramble in the box with 3 or 4 players touching the ball but not actually completing a pass (i.e. just pinging around deflecting off players), before someone tucks it away?

Is it then dependent on how long the SCRAMBLE goes on for?

 

[Everest]

I assume you voted for the "....you fool" option? You're quite correct, of course.

I haven't voted because every situation is different, so you can't really put a definitive number on it.

 

[symyjym]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

I don't know about 10 passes, once the free kick is taken the 10 yards advantage is over.

 

[symyjym]

With a nod to an idea from El P on his "I would walk 500 miles" (or something) thread:

We have a set piece and some number of passes later we score (however unlikely that may seem). After how many passes can the goal be considered "from open play"?

For clarity: a pass from the set piece taker to Calde, who scores is classed as 1 pass.

I wouldn't consider the set piece taker's first touch as a pass so I cannot really vote on this. I think that point deserves it's own poll first.

 

[symyjym]

What about a free kick into the box, scramble in the box with 3 or 4 players touching the ball but not actually completing a pass (i.e. just pinging around deflecting off players), before someone tucks it away?

Is it then dependent on how long the SCRAMBLE goes on for?

A set piece is something that comes straight out of the training ground from a dead ball situation, so I don't see a goal mouth scramble as a well thought out and precise process.

 

[Nathan]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

What he said.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

I voted two, but I actually think this is closer to the mark. I think we also now need to tack an extra 140miles to the tachometer of shame.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

It could never be 10. Ever. It stops being a set piece the moment it cannot have been rehearsed on the training ground. You can rehearse up to 3 passes/touches in a set piece, beyond that, it is unpredictable therefore open play.

 

[Munkfish]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

Agreed, for me it would be until a the opposing team touch the ball and break the sequence from the original kick.

I dont believe this would ever be more than 5 though.

Free kick taker touches the ball, second player dummies a shot and passes down the line, third player crosses, fourth player heads in. for me that is a well worked goal from a set peice.

 

[Luke93]

Other- within 10 seconds.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

A goal scored from a rebound off the goalkeeper or woodwork following a penalty (not by the penalty-taker in the second case, obviously) doesn't result in (pen) after the scorer's name. So in that case the answer is one.