[Albion] Adingra/Buonanotte/Enciso/Ferguon vs Mitoma/Pedro

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Reading the how much is Pedro worth thread got me thinking.

We've got used to selling one or two key players each season. Last summer was the exception but we spent 200m so I think most of us are expecting some sales this summer. Pedro and Mitoma seem the most likely candidates for big money sales.

In the Pedro thread he seems to be valued at anywhere from a bargain basement 50m up. Mitoma we turned down something like 65m from Saudi. So if we sold both we'd be looking at getting well over 100m while selling one would get us over 50m.

However, I think we could get similar money if we sold some or all of Adingra/Buonanotte/Enciso/Ferguson. Sell all of them and you're looking at circa 100m, maybe more.

In an ideal world we won't sell anybody. They're all either great players already or players with huge potential.

BUT...

If we have to sell in the summer(and assuming that all players are happy to either stay or be sold...) which road would you rather go down?

Sell one or two established first team stars possibly at their peak value or keep the key players and sell the younger players with big potential but who are currently on the fringe of things and might not achieve their potential with us?

 

[BiffyBoy100]

Reading the how much is Pedro worth thread got me thinking.

We've got used to selling one or two key players each season. Last summer was the exception but we spent 200m so I think most of us are expecting some sales this summer. Pedro and Mitoma seem the most likely candidates for big money sales.

In the Pedro thread he seems to be valued at anywhere from a bargain basement 50m up. Mitoma we turned down something like 65m from Saudi. So if we sold both we'd be looking at getting well over 100m while selling one would get us over 50m.

However, I think we could get similar money if we sold some or all of Adingra/Buonanotte/Enciso/Ferguson. Sell all of them and you're looking at circa 100m, maybe more.

In an ideal world we won't sell anybody. They're all either great players already or players with huge potential.

BUT...

If we have to sell in the summer(and assuming that all players are happy to either stay or be sold...) which road would you rather go down?

Sell one or two established first team stars possibly at their peak value or keep the key players and sell the younger players with big potential but who are currently on the fringe of things and might not achieve their potential with us?

It’s a good point, and I’ve thought the same—would you rather have all the ~£200m worth of signings from this season, or still have Caicedo and Mac Allister in the team?

From a commercial perspective, though, you need to showcase players in the first team to drive up their value. As we saw with Gyökeres and others, loan moves don’t generate enough value. Even with Ben White, we kept him for a full season before selling, which helped boost his price.

The challenge is that once a player’s stock rises from performing in the first team, agents get involved, and suddenly you’re forced into big-money sales and bigger wages. That’s why we also need some of Buonanotte, Adingra, Enciso, and Ferguson to step into the roles of those we sell—both to sustain performance levels and to unlock their own value.

I do hope we eventually reach a point where we go high enough to slightly adjust the model and retain a superstar (although I’d still keep Baleba over Caicedo so maybe not)

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

It’s a good point, and I’ve thought the same—would you rather have all the ~£200m worth of signings from this season, or still have Caicedo and Mac Allister in the team?

From a commercial perspective, though, you need to showcase players in the first team to drive up their value. As we saw with Gyökeres and others, loan moves don’t generate enough value. Even with Ben White, we kept him for a full season before selling, which helped boost his price.

The challenge is that once a player’s stock rises from performing in the first team, agents get involved, and suddenly you’re forced into big-money sales and bigger wages. That’s why we also need some of Buonanotte, Adingra, Enciso, and Ferguson to step into the roles of those we sell—both to sustain performance levels and to unlock their own value.

I do hope we eventually reach a point where we go high enough to slightly adjust the model and retain a superstar (although I’d still keep Baleba over Caicedo so maybe not)

Good points.

That's the dilemma isn't it?

If we keep the top tier of players and sell the tier below we'll (hopefully)get a stronger team next season but we'd probably end up selling the stars at the end of that season. Then who steps in?

In our case though we have a lot of young players with potential - Minteh, Georginho, Gruda, Hinshelwood, Yalcouye, Osman, Tzimas etc and presumably more that I've forgotten and others that we'll buy this summer.

Are we getting to the position where we can keep the stars, sell some of the next up players and still have enough quality/youngsters to carry on?

In terms of this season and the question I posed in the opening post I'm still torn.
I think I'm edging towards selling two or three of the young guns and keeping Pedro and Mitoma for another season.

 

[US Seagull]

Sell one or two established first team stars possibly at their peak value or keep the key players and sell the younger players with big potential but who are currently on the fringe of things and might not achieve their potential with us?

Sell 2, or sell 4. Something about eggs and baskets springs to mind.

Sell the 2 at peak value. You have a decent chance that at least 2 of the 4 younger players will reach similar levels, maybe more.

Of course. Rather not sell any and have all the younger players reach maximum potential. But we don't live in a ideal world.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

We're going to have to do something (quite a lot) about the size and shape of the squad in the summer.

CM
Ayari/Baleba/Milner/Weiffer/Yalcouye/Hinshelwood/Gomez

AM
Pedro/Rutter/O'Riley/Gruda/Enciso/Buanonotte

LW
Adingra/Mitoma/Sima/Sarmiento

RW
March/Minteh/ACZ/Osman


I think it makes sense to sell Pedro, Enciso, Sarmiento , Sima and release Milner .
ACZ, Yalcouye and possibly Gruda out on loan, with the usual heap of incoming prospects.

There is a possibility that Baleba goes, but I really hope not.
Mitoma will only stay if we get Europe., and we would need a replacement if he does..

That still leaves a lot in CM and AM, but as this season has proved, we probably need that depth of squad to stay competitive

 

[Insel affe]

West Ham are currently looking at other attacking options in the summer, so Evan,s value is dropping and could well be staying if he does not start scoring soon.

 

[Han Solo]

Reading the how much is Pedro worth thread got me thinking.

We've got used to selling one or two key players each season. Last summer was the exception but we spent 200m so I think most of us are expecting some sales this summer. Pedro and Mitoma seem the most likely candidates for big money sales.

In the Pedro thread he seems to be valued at anywhere from a bargain basement 50m up. Mitoma we turned down something like 65m from Saudi. So if we sold both we'd be looking at getting well over 100m while selling one would get us over 50m.

However, I think we could get similar money if we sold some or all of Adingra/Buonanotte/Enciso/Ferguson. Sell all of them and you're looking at circa 100m, maybe more.

In an ideal world we won't sell anybody. They're all either great players already or players with huge potential.

BUT...

If we have to sell in the summer(and assuming that all players are happy to either stay or be sold...) which road would you rather go down?

Sell one or two established first team stars possibly at their peak value or keep the key players and sell the younger players with big potential but who are currently on the fringe of things and might not achieve their potential with us?

Well, based on your scenario...

I'd prefer selling the fringe players, no doubt. I'm sure Tony Bloom & co would be happy with that.

But the "lets assume all players are happy to stay" just isn't realistic unless we qualify for Champions League. Some players who have done very well for us in the last few years are going to want to take that step... with or without us.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Well, based on your scenario...

I'd prefer selling the fringe players, no doubt. I'm sure Tony Bloom & co would be happy with that.

But the "lets assume all players are happy to stay" just isn't realistic unless we qualify for Champions League. Some players who have done very well for us in the last few years are going to want to take that step... with or without us.

Yeah it's a simplified situation for sure. If a player wants out and a big club wants them then they're gone.

My hypothetical is based on us being in charge of who we sell and when.

The Pedro thread just got me thinking on yhe strength and quality of the squad and how we were potentially now in a position of being able to bring in big money without having to sell established star players.


I just found it an interesting question and something to think about other than the Trump and Ukraine threads.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I think Pedro is going to become one of the very best, he has skills you don't see very often. Hope we get another year, but wherever he does go it will be for a lot, to the top

 

[Han Solo]

Yeah it's a simplified situation for sure. If a player wants out and a big club wants them then they're gone.

My hypothetical is based on us being in charge of who we sell and when.

The Pedro thread just got me thinking on yhe strength and quality of the squad and how we were potentially now in a position of being able to bring in big money without having to sell established star players.


I just found it an interesting question and something to think about other than the Trump and Ukraine threads.

In that hypothetical scenario... yes, I'd like the club to keep the best players and sell the less good players.

 

[Albion my Albion]

AM
Pedro/Rutter/O'Riley/Gruda/Enciso/Buanonotte

Did you forget Georginio?

I heard Rutter and him were very close and team up on many scoring chances.

 

[Insel affe]

Did you forget Georginio?

Shhhhhhhhhh

shut the feck up dude, Shhhhhhhh

 

[The Optimist]

Sell no one. We’re going to qualify for the Champions League which will keep them all happy and mean we need a large squad.

(Well maybe)

 

[Flounce]

Going slightly off topic.

If you’d told me pre season that we wouldn’t be playing Adingra much, sending Goodnight, Sarmiento and Evan out on loan, playing Ayari in midfield more often than not and that most of our new signings would be injured for months…I would have expected a relegation battle!

 

[Simster]

Good points.

That's the dilemma isn't it?

If we keep the top tier of players and sell the tier below we'll (hopefully)get a stronger team next season but we'd probably end up selling the stars at the end of that season. Then who steps in?

In our case though we have a lot of young players with potential - Minteh, Georginho, Gruda, Hinshelwood, Yalcouye, Osman, Tzimas etc and presumably more that I've forgotten and others that we'll buy this summer.

Are we getting to the position where we can keep the stars, sell some of the next up players and still have enough quality/youngsters to carry on?

In terms of this season and the question I posed in the opening post I'm still torn.
I think I'm edging towards selling two or three of the young guns and keeping Pedro and Mitoma for another season.

Great thread but I'm edging towards the opposite. I'd hate to lose JP and KM but that is the model we've followed for 8 years - we make a fortune in selling our best players (some of whom are world class), re-invest the money in good players (some of whom turn out to be just as good), but crucially, we continue to climb or sustain our position in the league.

Some of our up and coming stars could yet prove to be excellent signings. Mac Allister took 18 months to bed in, but he was at a patient club and look what happened there. I think we all know Buenonotte and Ferguson - with a bit of luck and an absence of injury - could prove to be far better than they currently are. The one I'm holding out most hope for is one you haven't even mentioned - Ferdi Kadıoğlu.

 

[Justice]

Sell no one. We’re going to qualify for the Champions League which will keep them all happy and mean we need a large squad.

(Well maybe)

Optimistic

 

[JBizzle]

We're going to have to do something (quite a lot) about the size and shape of the squad in the summer.

CM
Ayari/Baleba/Milner/Weiffer/Yalcouye/Hinshelwood/Gomez/O'Riley

AM
Pedro/Rutter/O'Riley/Gruda/Enciso/Buonanotte

LW
Adingra/Mitoma/Sima/Sarmiento/Enciso/March

RW
March/Minteh/ACZ/Osman/Pedro/Rutter/Gruda/Buonanotte


I think it makes sense to sell Pedro, Enciso, Sarmiento , Sima and release Milner .
ACZ, Yalcouye and possibly Gruda out on loan, with the usual heap of incoming prospects.

There is a possibility that Baleba goes, but I really hope not.
Mitoma will only stay if we get Europe., and we would need a replacement if he does..

That still leaves a lot in CM and AM, but as this season has proved, we probably need that depth of squad to stay competitive

When you add in players who can play in multiple positions (above) it gets even more stacked. Personally, I think you're right on Sarmiento, Sima, Milner and Enciso and (plus, maybe Adingra).

On Mitoma, Pedro and Baleba, I think we could sell any of them, but the price would likely be PSR-busting for any of the buying clubs. Although I'm sure Chelsea and Villa can do a £45m swap for two unknown academy players to balance the books again.

 

[highflyer]

One small correction to the OP. I don't think we 'turned down' 65m for Mitoma. As I understand he (quite rightly) didn't want to go to Saudi. My sense is that, once players have 'done their time', and if they express a wish to move then the club will prioritise that sale as long as an acceptable price is offered. In this scenario, both JP and KM meet the first criteria and I'd strongly suspect JP would be the keener to move. It then depends on whether we get the right offer. We won't be short of suitors though, he's a top Prem player.
I'd imagine we'd then be looking at bringing Ferguson back (unless he bombs at West Ham) and selling some of the other 'fringe' players mentioned. Enciso, Sarmiento for sure. Buonanotte I think we'll also keep, he seems like a Fab type player to me. We'd also invest in some attacking potential.
If we get CL then all bets are off of course, but I think thats highly unlikely.

 

[Simster]

If we get CL then all bets are off of course, but I think thats highly unlikely.

Not so sure it's "highly" unlikely anymore. The markets have us around 3.2 (between 2/1 and 9/4) to finish in the top 6. If we can finally beat Fulham after 8 years of trying, and then get something at City, those will be the odds for a top 5 place.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Going slightly off topic.

If you’d told me pre season that we wouldn’t be playing Adingra much, sending Goodnight, Sarmiento and Evan out on loan, playing Ayari in midfield more often than not and that most of our new signings would be injured for months…I would have expected a relegation battle!

That's a good lesson for us all to take into next season when, as ever, there will be similar surprises