Accept that losing to Germany wasn't the disgrace it has been made out to be?

[Giraffe]

The disgrace was not losing to Germany,it was playing four games,scoring three goals,and there not being one good performance amongst them.

I accept that. but look at our first four games against in 1990. We scraped through with more than a bit of luck, who knows what would have happened if it had been 2-2. I'm just saying in 1990 we weren't as great as everyone says and in 2010 we weren't the worst either.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

As ever polarised opinions - are germany a great team ? no - just well organised with a manager who is a great tactician. If you look at possession at one point England had 60% probably the same for Argentina but Germany are fantastically organised and well coached.
England do not have crap players, neither do Argentina - we just need to play as a team and play everybody in the correct position.

 

[defrocked priest]

"England do not have crap players" erm, Glen Johnson. Says it all really.

 

[algie]

Wondered how long it would be before this thread popped up.

Losing to Germany was never the disgrace; the way we played/defended and the system, team selection and substitutions were.

Germany were good, but we made them look good, much like the Argies have done today.

Rubbish.

We were battered by Germany and so were the Argies.4-1 and 4-0 are no flukes.
They play to there strengths and were well organised.They saw weaknesses in there opponents and exploited it.Noone made them look good they were simply far better.

 

[DJ Leon]

Yes because that is what I said!!!

I'm not saying we were good, just don't think we were quite so bad.

Everyone goes on about 1990, but we were truly shocking in the group games, Belgium, and cameroon and scraped through only to lose to an average German team.

Why do we have to always go to one extreme or another. In 1990 we were probably a 7/10 team and people talk like we were world beaters. This time we were maybe a 5 or 6/10 team and suddenly we are the worse England team in history. It's just crap frankly. The margins are very very tiny.

Did you watch our four games?! Was there a fine line between us being good and being bad? Were we unlucky? Were we on the verge of glory? NO, we cataclysmically bad. We were lucky to get through and we were lucky to only concede 4. Fine line? It's a whacking great chasm.

 

[Giraffe]

As ever polarised opinions - are germany a great team ? no - just well organised with a manager who is a great tactician. If you look at possession at one point England had 60% probably the same for Argentina but Germany are fantastically organised and well coached.
England do not have crap players, neither do Argentina - we just need to play as a team and play everybody in the correct position.

Totally agree

 

[Don Quixote]

The bosch should have tried playing football back in the great war. Easy win for them I rekon. Wouldn't have had the sneaky Americans trying to sort them out.

 

[Giraffe]

Did you watch our four games?! Was there a fine line between us being good and being bad? Were we unlucky? Were we on the verge of glory? NO, we cataclysmically bad. We were lucky to get through and we were lucky to only concede 4. Fine line? It's a whacking great chasm.

Did you watch 1990? Three totally gutless performances, scraped through with five points, the same as in 2010, but luckily topped the group, scraped through by one goal against Belgium (that's Belgium!!), scraped through against Cameroon (yep Cameroon!) by one goal, with the help of two penalties and then lost to Germany, the only game we played very well in. Yes we were better but not THAT much better.

People think it is always black or white, it's not it's different shades of grey. We are further away from winning the world cup than in 1990 for sure because of the demands of the premiership and the amount of foreigners in our game now restricting our young talent, but we need to get a sense of proportion.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Did you watch our four games?! Was there a fine line between us being good and being bad? Were we unlucky? Were we on the verge of glory? NO, we cataclysmically bad. We were lucky to get through and we were lucky to only concede 4. Fine line? It's a whacking great chasm.

Anyone who suggests England were anything other than rubbish is as deluded as the players themselves.

And on the subject of the players, just after the team has yet again demonstrated beyond doubt they are not quite up to the World Stage why do they trot out lines suggesting they deserve to go further and are not crap?

 

[Giraffe]

We all know the limitations of our national team. But say for arguments sake Rooney's effort had gone in off the post and we won the group and then scraped past Ghana and Uruguay would that make us a better team? For me we would still be the same average team but with a bit more luck, like we were in 1990.

 

[Little Piggy]

I just think its nice to see we didn't concede the worst scoreline of the knockout rounds, and that the Argies did even worse against the Germans than we did. I don't think its deluded to enjoy that fact for short time.

 

[Tooting Gull]

So... we didn't want to play them in the last 16. And we didn't have to. We buggered up a piss-easy group, and even then due to other results we were undeservedly offered a second chance, one more goal in the second half against Slovenia. But we cocked that up too, and no one seemed remotely troubled by the fact we were never going to beat Germany, the Argies, probably Spain and as it turns out most likely Holland. It is incredible, and it keeps happening.

It will be one of my abiding memories of England's campaign, the smug brothers of Lineker, Shearer and Hansen in the BBC studio delightedly patting England on the back for scraping past Slovenia, when the failure to top that group and grab the opportunity offered was always going to be so costly.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Well that result makes me feel better.

We're at least the equal of Argentina

 

[Hunting 784561]

What short memories some people have.

Any team that struggles to DRAW against Algeria is BAD.

The conclusion of this thread is clutching at straws, and just DELUSIONAL.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We all know the limitations of our national team. But say for arguments sake Rooney's effort had gone in off the post and we won the group and then scraped past Ghana and Uruguay would that make us a better team? For me we would still be the same average team but with a bit more luck, like we were in 1990.

an average team with ideas well above their station.

 

[DJ Leon]

Did you watch 1990? Three totally gutless performances, scraped through with five points, the same as in 2010, but luckily topped the group, scraped through by one goal against Belgium (that's Belgium!!), scraped through against Cameroon (yep Cameroon!) by one goal, with the help of two penalties and then lost to Germany, the only game we played very well in. Yes we were better but not THAT much better.

People think it is always black or white, it's not it's different shades of grey. We are further away from winning the world cup than in 1990 for sure because of the demands of the premiership and the amount of foreigners in our game now restricting our young talent, but we need to get a sense of proportion.

Cameroon and Belgium in 1990 were a lot better than the likes of Algeria and Slovenia.

We played some decent football after the first couple of games, we certainly played well against Cameroon.

Our squad was a LOT better in 1990 than it is now.

Other than that you may have a point.

 

[1959]

agreed that Germany are a really good side, but you can't hide the fact that England were just truly shocking . I just hope the FA's decision to keep Capello doesn't back fire. In Euro '88 we lost all three games and Sir Bobby Robson kept his job , he then took us to the semi's in the next major tournament

True, but it took two shocking dives by Lineker to cheat Cameroon (who were battering us at the time if I remember correctly) for that to happen.
Our problem at the moment, imho, is that our players are deluded enough to believe that they are paid world-class salaries because they are world-class players.
Germany made it very clear just how wrong they are. And they did it again today against Argentina.

 

[Icy Gull]

There are some people who are just incapable of accepting we were absolute shit in this years World Cup and keep grasping at straws to justify our feebleness throughout the team and the tournament. Quite a few of them post on NSC.

 

[Turkey]

Yeah drawing with Algeria is such a disgrace. We're England, we're massive, we have the best players in the world, we never win anything but we're so awesome, did you know our players are paid loads??

It's a game of football ffs. Algeria are not a bad team. Anyone who sticks everyone behind the ball, works there buts off and raises there game can compete with better sides. It's 90 minutes. We've seen enough suprise scorelines in our lives to surely realise a draw with Algeria is not the most shocking inept thing to ever happen in history.

I'm not saying we were good. Germany have taught us a lesson in terms of playing as a team, covering your weaknesses and making the most of your strengths. But the arrogance that we're England and we should beat anyone ranked below 10th in the world is embarassing.

 

[Spicy]

The disgrace was we didn't take advantage of any changes we did have. The fact is Germany will win the World Cup.