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kuzushi

Well-known member
Oct 3, 2015
710
Well...the first written evidence of the ceremony of eating bread and drinking wine in Jesus's name was nearly 30 years after his death. Some of those historians we both like so much say it wasn't a religious celebration though (just a commemoration) until 120 years after his death.

I'm puzzled. Do these words seem religious to you or not?
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
From Matthew's gospel, so not written 120 years after Jesus's death.
If they are not, what are they?




Here's the full passage from Matthew 26 gospel for context:
The Last Supper
17 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, ‘Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?’
18 He replied, ‘Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, “The Teacher says: my appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.”’ 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.
20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21 And while they were eating, he said, ‘Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me.’
22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, ‘Surely you don’t mean me, Lord?’
23 Jesus replied, ‘The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.’
25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, ‘Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?’
Jesus answered, ‘You have said so.’
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, ‘Take and eat; this is my body.’
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.’



 




kuzushi

Well-known member
Oct 3, 2015
710
In Christianity, you are either reconciled with God or you are not, and the only way to be reconciled to God is through the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Paul converted to Christianity within 4-7 years of Jesus's death.
This is what Bart Ehrman says about Paul:

We're talking about the importance of Paul for early Christianity and on one level, as you and I both emphasised, you can't really overstate his importance
without a doubt is the second most important person in the history apart from Jesus, but I don't think you could say that Paul founded Christianity. Christianity is the belief that somehow Jesus is the one who makes people right with God, and the traditional Christianity as it's come down to us is that Jesus' death and resurrection put a person into a right standing before God. Paul agreed with that, but he didn't invent it. The followers of Jesus were saying that for years before he even converted. Paul's major contribution was indeed major. It allowed Christianity to take over the western world and to become the dominant religion today. [There are] more followers of Jesus in the world today that of any other religion, but the contribution Paul made to that was that he realised that people could be followers of the Jewish Messiah Jesus without being Jewish and that it's only belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus that matters. Others said that the death and resurrection of Jesus that brought salvation. Paul realised that that meant you could do that without being Jewish.



So in other words even the leading sceptical New Testament scholar agrees that Christianity was founded before Paul converted, ie. before 40AD at the latest.
What is Christianity? In a nutshell the belief Jesus' death and resurrection put a person into a right standing before God. This is the gospel.
 


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