[Football] A lot of talk about VAR but none about the goal kick rule

[Swansman]

(warning: nerd stuff)

Law 16 - The goal kick

The ball is in play once the kick is taken; it can be played before leaving the penalty area
Opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is kicked

As you might have noticed, Brighton are not the only team to do "dangerous passing around their own penalty box" and the main reason is not a change of attitude, but this rule that has proved to completely change football in the same extent that the "no back pass" rule did.

More or less every team is now starting build up this way, because it is the superior way. Instead of kicking it long where you usually lose the ball more than 50% of the time, you avoid the randomness with a safe first pass.

Every team got this kind of data:
https://streamable.com/ay4qq
(latter part of the video most relevant)
... meaning that they know that the short alternative has a better statistical outcome.

Yet I think the struggle of some of the big teams could be attributed to this gigantic change, because it requires not only improved skill from the defenders, but also improved positional ability from the midfielders.

The long goal kick is dead, yet people are talking more about every other rule change that in most senses had far less impact.

As this is all very new, I wonder how this will develop in the next few seasons. Maybe all of the teams will have 11 players on their own half when you get a goal kick? Maybe the teams will use 4 or 5 players instead of 2 or 3 to put the early pressure on the team with the goal kick?

How do you feel we have managed this so far compared to other teams?

Divide into small groups and discuss.

 

[Me and my Monkey]

I'm pleased you're back. But that was a bit boring. I preferred the Brighton to Falmer commentary.

 

[dingodan]

We definately seem to be ahead of the curve when it comes to the type of defenders we go for and try to develop.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

(warning: nerd stuff)

Law 16 - The goal kick

The ball is in play once the kick is taken; it can be played before leaving the penalty area
Opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is kicked

As you might have noticed, Brighton are not the only team to do "dangerous passing around their own penalty box" and the main reason is not a change of attitude, but this rule that has proved to completely change football in the same extent that the "no back pass" rule did.

More or less every team is now starting build up this way, because it is the superior way. Instead of kicking it long where you usually lose the ball more than 50% of the time, you avoid the randomness with a safe first pass.

Every team got this kind of data:
https://streamable.com/ay4qq
(latter part of the video most relevant)
... meaning that they know that the short alternative has a better statistical outcome.

Yet I think the struggle of some of the big teams could be attributed to this gigantic change, because it requires not only improved skill from the defenders, but also improved positional ability from the midfielders.

The long goal kick is dead, yet people are talking more about every other rule change that in most senses had far less impact.

As this is all very new, I wonder how this will develop in the next few seasons. Maybe all of the teams will have 11 players on their own half when you get a goal kick? Maybe the teams will use 4 or 5 players instead of 2 or 3 to put the early pressure on the team with the goal kick?

How do you feel we have managed this so far compared to other teams?

Divide into small groups and discuss.

Who is this 'we' you talk about - you don't support The Albion

 

[NooBHA]

I'm pleased you're back. But that was a bit boring. I preferred the Brighton to Falmer commentary.

Yeh I really missed some of his very interesting posts and contributions. But I had forgotten how much pointless long winded drivel sometimes gets posted

 

[Swansman]

We definately seem to be ahead of the curve when it comes to the type of defenders we go for and try to develop.

Yeah, really agree. It feels like Potter (obviously, since he was a pioneer in this kind of build up play) but also Ashworth etc realise that in the future, you are at a severe disadvantage if you dont have ball playing defenders. I think over the next season or two it is going to become very clear which clubs that understand this and which ones that dont follow this development. I still see some clubs going after defenders purely based on stuff like "oh he's big and strong". Going to be an advantage for clubs like Brighton for sure.

Who is this 'we' you talk about - you don't support The Albion

I watch every game, cheer every goal we score, quietly mourn every time we concede, if we lose I feel shit until I go out and get wasted, if we win every atom in my body goes into a state of harmony. Possibly I'm a bad supporter or a short term supporter, but I do support the Albion and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

(warning: nerd stuff)

Law 16 - The goal kick

The ball is in play once the kick is taken; it can be played before leaving the penalty area
Opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is kicked

As you might have noticed, Brighton are not the only team to do "dangerous passing around their own penalty box" and the main reason is not a change of attitude, but this rule that has proved to completely change football in the same extent that the "no back pass" rule did.

More or less every team is now starting build up this way, because it is the superior way. Instead of kicking it long where you usually lose the ball more than 50% of the time, you avoid the randomness with a safe first pass.

Every team got this kind of data:
https://streamable.com/ay4qq
(latter part of the video most relevant)
... meaning that they know that the short alternative has a better statistical outcome.

Yet I think the struggle of some of the big teams could be attributed to this gigantic change, because it requires not only improved skill from the defenders, but also improved positional ability from the midfielders.

The long goal kick is dead, yet people are talking more about every other rule change that in most senses had far less impact.

As this is all very new, I wonder how this will develop in the next few seasons. Maybe all of the teams will have 11 players on their own half when you get a goal kick? Maybe the teams will use 4 or 5 players instead of 2 or 3 to put the early pressure on the team with the goal kick?

How do you feel we have managed this so far compared to other teams?

Divide into small groups and discuss.

I don't regard it as 'dangerous'. You got into trouble before by making assumptions that a few opinions on NSC are representative of all. It simply requires better skills and coaching.

In my opinion, the 'struggle of the big teams' might just as easily be attributed to VAR eliminating any unconscious bias towards said big teams by referees. A levelling of the playing field if you will.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

I watch every game, cheer every goal we score, quietly mourn every time we concede, if we lose I feel shit until I go out and get wasted, if we win every atom in my body goes into a state of harmony. Possibly I'm a bad supporter or a short term supporter, but I do support the Albion and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.[/QUOTE]

Another verbose 'character' on my ignore list then

 

[symyjym]

I'm just waiting for that time when a foul on is committed in the penalty area, and as it goes to VAR, the opposing team have already broken out and scored the before the VAR has been decided.

This would mean that not only would a good goal be chalked off but a penalty being awarded against them too.

Anyway just a matter of time for this scenario.

 

[vagabond]

Swansman is obviously a blatant, unabashed Potter fanboy.

So whilst GP is our manager, however long that may be (hopefully long...) I have no problem with him supporting the Albion.

In fact we can even get some decent insights from his time in Sweden.

 

[Baldseagull]

(warning: nerd stuff)

Law 16 - The goal kick

The ball is in play once the kick is taken; it can be played before leaving the penalty area
Opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is kicked

As you might have noticed, Brighton are not the only team to do "dangerous passing around their own penalty box" and the main reason is not a change of attitude, but this rule that has proved to completely change football in the same extent that the "no back pass" rule did.

More or less every team is now starting build up this way, because it is the superior way. Instead of kicking it long where you usually lose the ball more than 50% of the time, you avoid the randomness with a safe first pass.

Every team got this kind of data:
https://streamable.com/ay4qq
(latter part of the video most relevant)
... meaning that they know that the short alternative has a better statistical outcome.

Yet I think the struggle of some of the big teams could be attributed to this gigantic change, because it requires not only improved skill from the defenders, but also improved positional ability from the midfielders.

The long goal kick is dead, yet people are talking more about every other rule change that in most senses had far less impact.

As this is all very new, I wonder how this will develop in the next few seasons. Maybe all of the teams will have 11 players on their own half when you get a goal kick? Maybe the teams will use 4 or 5 players instead of 2 or 3 to put the early pressure on the team with the goal kick?

How do you feel we have managed this so far compared to other teams?

Divide into small groups and discuss.

There is another route that is less of a lottery, a 6ft 7" left back out wide on the half way line to punt it out to.

 

[BensGrandad]

IMHO the goal kick rule was changed the wrong way to improve the game. It should have been as it was with an indirect free kick given to the opposing side if the ball was touched inside the box.

 

[Icy Gull]

I'm just waiting for that time when a foul on is committed in the penalty area, and as it goes to VAR, the opposing team have already broken out and scored the before the VAR has been decided.

This would mean that not only would a good goal be chalked off but a penalty being awarded against them too.

Anyway just a matter of time for this scenario.

I think that may actually have happened in the recent Liverpool vs Saints game. Should have been a penalty to Saints, ref waved played on, Liverpool went up the other end and scored in seconds. I imagine as it was Kevin Friend reffing the game and it was the mighty Liverpool they quickly put VAR back in it’s box and whistled hoping it wouldn’t cause too big a furore. I have a vague memory of it being Hoops on VAR too?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Rain due again later

 

[Machiavelli]

(warning: nerd stuff)

Law 16 - The goal kick

The ball is in play once the kick is taken; it can be played before leaving the penalty area
Opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is kicked

As you might have noticed, Brighton are not the only team to do "dangerous passing around their own penalty box" and the main reason is not a change of attitude, but this rule that has proved to completely change football in the same extent that the "no back pass" rule did.

More or less every team is now starting build up this way, because it is the superior way. Instead of kicking it long where you usually lose the ball more than 50% of the time, you avoid the randomness with a safe first pass.

Every team got this kind of data:
https://streamable.com/ay4qq
(latter part of the video most relevant)
... meaning that they know that the short alternative has a better statistical outcome.

Yet I think the struggle of some of the big teams could be attributed to this gigantic change, because it requires not only improved skill from the defenders, but also improved positional ability from the midfielders.

The long goal kick is dead, yet people are talking more about every other rule change that in most senses had far less impact.

As this is all very new, I wonder how this will develop in the next few seasons. Maybe all of the teams will have 11 players on their own half when you get a goal kick? Maybe the teams will use 4 or 5 players instead of 2 or 3 to put the early pressure on the team with the goal kick?

How do you feel we have managed this so far compared to other teams?

Divide into small groups and discuss.

Whatever the statistics show, the problem with playing out from the back is that if it goes wrong, the likelihood of the opposition creating a goalscoring opportunity is extremely high, whereas this isn't the case with the long ball goal kick. We pre-Potter B&HA fans are extremely familiar with that long ball goal kick, and it wasn't pretty. I prefer the play out from the back option and, as much as it gets some of our more nervy fans' knickers in a twist, it's only led to a few goalscoring opportunities (I can certainly think of Webster conceding a penalty against Chelsea because of it). So, you're right, we are well advanced on this front and what's struck me this season has been how well Ryan has taken to this new role (in stark contrast to his 'long'-kicking which never went too much further than the half-way line, he can't get the power of an Ederson, Allison, Pickford or Henderson).
That said, I do think that we need to mix things up a little. Somebody's also mentioned the benefit of having a 6'7 left back, and there was also that Ryan to Trossard exocet against Watford, but we just need to find more options like this. Predictability is a boon to opposition coaches, unless you've got the best players at your disposal (and we haven't).

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

Playing out from the back needs to be an option rather than a routine. If it is routine it will be countered and overturned. There is still a place for strong defenders, if a team does not have them it will concede too much from crosses and set plays.

At the end of the day a manager/head coach has to cut his cloth according to his resources. If he gets that wrong and points do not result, he will be moved on, simple as that. Football is a ruthless game.

 

[Swansman]

Whatever the statistics show, the problem with playing out from the back is that if it goes wrong, the likelihood of the opposition creating a goalscoring opportunity is extremely high, whereas this isn't the case with the long ball goal kick. We pre-Potter B&HA fans are extremely familiar with that long ball goal kick, and it wasn't pretty. I prefer the play out from the back option and, as much as it gets some of our more nervy fans' knickers in a twist, it's only led to a few goalscoring opportunities (I can certainly think of Webster conceding a penalty against Chelsea because of it). So, you're right, we are well advanced on this front and what's struck me this season has been how well Ryan has taken to this new role (in stark contrast to his 'long'-kicking which never went too much further than the half-way line, he can't get the power of an Ederson, Allison, Pickford or Henderson).
That said, I do think that we need to mix things up a little. Somebody's also mentioned the benefit of having a 6'7 left back, and there was also that Ryan to Trossard exocet against Watford, but we just need to find more options like this. Predictability is a boon to opposition coaches, unless you've got the best players at your disposal (and we haven't).

I agree that having multiple options decrease predictability and increase the success rate of any route you go.

In Swansea/ÖFK Potter had three "main" ways:

1. The short one (was infinitely more difficult without this goal kick rule change though; every goal kick was an ass clencher in Swansea last season)

2. The "tall wing back vs small winger" one, that we are doing with Burn (Olsson in Swansea)

3. Tall striker vs opponent wing back

I have to say I REALLY miss the last one, as it was mighty effective. When Swansea had a goal kick, McBurnie would swap position with a winger and instead of having a 40-60 aerial duel against some Championship neanderthal central defender, he would be battling some small pacy left/right back (with the added bonus that their 7ft2 defender had to deal with a very quick winger)-

If we stay up I'm convinced we'll sign a strong, tall forward in the summer with Maupay getting more of a cut-inside-winger position.

 

[GT49er]

Unnecessary and niggling change of laws - an example of change for change's sake if ever there was one. How difficult is it/was it for a professional footballer to pass the ball 12 yards from the six yard line to the 18 yard line?

(Thinking back though, I must admit that sometimes back in the U12 days, kicking up hill and into the wind, in the pouring rain, with a leather ball, it was sometimes difficult to clear the edge of the penalty area!)

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

(warning: nerd stuff)

Law 16 - The goal kick <snip>

The long goal kick is dead, .

No it isn't.

End of thread

 

[Swansman]

Unnecessary and niggling change of laws - an example of change for change's sake if ever there was one. How difficult is it/was it for a professional footballer to pass the ball 12 yards from the six yard line to the 18 yard line?

Personally I feel "the goal kick must leave the penalty area before it is in play" was a unnecessary and niggling law of the game.