[TV] A Cow's Life: The True Cost of Milk? - Panorama

[Herr Tubthumper]

I may be wrong.

You often are....as we are about to see again.

Ihasn’t the UK Government banned production.

Yes, but in 2006.Nothing to do with Brexit.

more recently, since Brexit, importation of Foie Gras in the UK?

Wrong. It is still available to buy in the UK.

II suspect neither production or importation of it into other EU countries is banned in the EU.

Wrong. It is banned from production in many EU countries, Germany included.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm trying to cut down on animal products.

I try and have 3 meat-free days a week.

 

[cunning fergus]

You often are....as we are about to see again.



Yes, but in 2006.Nothing to do with Brexit.



Wrong. It is still available to buy in the UK.



Wrong. It is banned from production in many EU countries, Germany included.

Well, I will definitely concede to your superiority on all matters connected to Foie Gras, very impressive.

That point made, it is a practice that is tolerated by the EU institutions isn’t it? So, they are not so progressive on animal welfare as the UK is now and will be if an importation ban is imposed.

What a game……

 

[Jim in the West]

If you love geese and their welfare you should support Brexit.

At last, someone has found a reason to support Brexit.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well, I will definitely concede to your superiority on all matters connected to Foie Gras, very impressive.

That point made, it is a practice that is tolerated by the EU institutions isn’t it? So, they are not so progressive on animal welfare as the UK is now and will be if an importation ban is imposed.

What a game……

Not as progressive as the UK? The position on foie gras in the UK is exactly the same as that in the vast majority of the EU. Just admit you were wrong, like you were the other day with VAT on fuel. Just like you were previously in a discussion on pharamcoeconomics, on sugar, and another discussion on VAT.

 

[cunning fergus]

Not as progressive as the UK? The position on foie gras in the UK is exactly the same as that in the vast majority of the EU. Just admit you were wrong, like you were the other day with VAT on fuel. Just like you were previously in a discussion on pharamcoeconomics, on sugar, and another discussion on VAT.

Didn’t you just agree that the UK banned production (in 2006) and that production is not banned by the EU in its member states. There’s nothing controversial in stating that the EU tolerating the production in some member states is shameful, and far from “progressive”.

Happy to concede that your knowledge of Foie Gras is superior to me, no question, you know your gavage onions.

As for VAT etc. if you are going to say there is NOT a EU VAT Regulation (and associated Directives) that member states have to comply which the UK now doesn’t then knock yourself out.

I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but your posts today are conveying a sensation that you are a bit on the tense side. Maybe, before you knock yourself, as above, you take a bit of me time and knock one out.

 

[maltaseagull]

I'm going for post #19 before someone tells us they're a vegan.

I am from Venus......

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Didn’t you just agree that the UK banned production (in 2006) and that production is not banned by the EU in its member states. There’s nothing controversial in stating that the EU tolerating the production in some member states is shameful, and far from “progressive”.

Happy to concede that your knowledge of Foie Gras is superior to me, no question, you know your gavage onions.

As for VAT etc. if you are going to say there is NOT a EU VAT Regulation (and associated Directives) that member states have to comply which the UK now doesn’t then knock yourself out.

I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but your posts today are conveying a sensation that you are a bit on the tense side. Maybe, before you knock yourself, as above, you take a bit of me time and knock one out.

1) You complain when the EU allegedly over-rides national sovereignty. And you spin it the other way when individual states do things off their own back. Inconsistent argument. Above all I find it bizarre that you still wet your pants over us given you have left.

2) Concession accepted.

3) I'm not saying anything, more refering you back to the crap you wrote in the cost of living thread.

4) Tense? Really? I'll accept intense ; I'm bored with time on my hands. I am taking a day out to catch up some domestic admin which is now boring. A posting in between tasks lightens the mood. I will shortly finish up and go for a run.

 

[Monkey Man]

If you're still a milk drinker, I'd really encourage you to try oat milk. It took me a couple of days to get used to it, but after that it's all upside - it's "creamier" (which gives a flat white a nice bit of extra body!) You can store it (unopened) for absolutely ages, and it seems to last ages in the fridge, too (once opened). My personal favourite is Oatly barista, which is slightly more expensive than cows milk. But even without the environmental upsides, I'd still choose oat milk over cows. Give it a try!!

I might just do that. Do you find it's OK on cereal? One of my favourite bits of the day is a bowl of muesli for breakfast with some cold skimmed milk. If the flavour can be matched, I'm in.

I gave up red meat a while back for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with health, the environment and animal welfare, but feel rather hypocritical given how much dairy I still consume. It's a hard habit to break.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Got a lecture about this from my stepson a couple of weeks ago before he zoomed off on his new BMW motorbike….


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[WATFORD zero]

If you love geese and their welfare you should support Brexit.

At last, someone has found a reason to support Brexit.

And as [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] irrefutably details above, to be filed in the enormous file that contains all the other Brexit/Johnson lies

 

[AstroSloth]

have to note double counting going on there. i.e. counting cheese emissions and the beef dairy too. also there's no land use change for beef in Europe, nor is there much feed used. thats why locality of meat matters, more than transport, as much of the cost doesnt apply here. also CO2 absorbtion of the livestock and feedstock is not being counted.

on flip side the count for soymilk is suspicious, is it somehow only produced from established farms? soy itself is missing entirely.

Feed is regularly used in the UK. 68% of soy imports into the UK are for livestock, and even those that claim not to contribute to Amazon deforestation often do.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2022/02/10/deforestation-free-soya-farmers-amazon-destruction/amp/

The CO2 absorption of the livestock is incredibly low, as they are simply reabsorbing a small portion of what they emit, it's overvalued by the meat industry.

Rewilding parts of the country would do far more.

Also stopping trawler nets would be a huge part as they dredge up the bottom of the oceans, releasing massive amounts of CO2 that is trapped on the ocean floor. In fact they release more CO2 than the aviation industry.

 

[AstroSloth]

World Trade is more complicated than that. Spain imports more of it's almond production from the US than it grows.
"Spain is an important trade hub for the re-export of Californian almonds within Europe, which usually arrive to the port of Barcelona. Spain re-exports on average more than 80% (approximately 80 thousand tonnes) of its shelled almond imports to other European countries."

These almonds do indeed come from ����.

Except they don't. The companies source their almonds from farms in Spain. Very different to importing their almonds from Spain.

 

[AstroSloth]

Couldn’t agree more, my local has a number of farm workers in there, and they care about their animals.

The local dairy provide veal regularly to the pub in order to ensure calves are slaughtered locally and not shipped to Europe where there is a far bigger appetite for that meat.

It may be counter intuitive but if you love animals and want to support farmers then you should eat veal.

If they cared about their animals they wouldn't subject them to forced impregnation, rip those babies away from their mothers while the mothers cry out for them and then murder those babies while they're still suffering separation anxiety.

You can't be an animal farmer and care for your animals.
If you love animals and want to support farmers, eat plants. Plants are still grown by farmers in case you didn't realise.

 

[BLOCK F]

If they cared about their animals they wouldn't subject them to forced impregnation, rip those babies away from their mothers while the mothers cry out for them and then murder those babies while they're still suffering separation anxiety.

You can't be an animal farmer and care for your animals.
If you love animals and want to support farmers, eat plants. Plants are still grown by farmers in case you didn't realise.

Sweeping statement.

 

[AstroSloth]

i looked at the source for one of those protien foods (Huel?). beans and grains harvested from South America, Africa, South East Asia, shipped to US to be processed and formulated, about 10 kilo for every kilo protein. does anyone evaluate the true impact of that, to land use and local food prices? i'd rather have nice bit of local grass fed tasty protein thanks.

Yes and the fact is that the transport of those is still massively less than the emissions from rearing local meat and dairy.

These days tofu is grown in the Netherlands so it's even less transport than before.

 

[Lower West Stander]

If they cared about their animals they wouldn't subject them to forced impregnation, rip those babies away from their mothers while the mothers cry out for them and then murder those babies while they're still suffering separation anxiety.

You can't be an animal farmer and care for your animals.
If you love animals and want to support farmers, eat plants. Plants are still grown by farmers in case you didn't realise.

Blimey.

Perhaps a bit of balance required? Not sure you going to convert many people with that diatribe….


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[AstroSloth]

I might just do that. Do you find it's OK on cereal? One of my favourite bits of the day is a bowl of muesli for breakfast with some cold skimmed milk. If the flavour can be matched, I'm in.

I gave up red meat a while back for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with health, the environment and animal welfare, but feel rather hypocritical given how much dairy I still consume. It's a hard habit to break.

I really enjoy oat milk on cereal. It's a lot creamier than some of the other plant milks which makes it a better substitute. In coffee I was drinking it before I was even vegetarian, let alone vegan. I much preferred it to dairy milk.

 

[AstroSloth]

Sweeping statement.

Well it's also just true. Dairy farming relies on everything I said.

It is also impossible to love animals when you raise them in an inhumane way then murder them years before they would naturally die.

 

[AstroSloth]

Blimey.

Perhaps a bit of balance required? Not sure you going to convert many people with that diatribe….


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Turns out people don't like learning what actually goes on for their cup of tea in the morning.

All I did was state what happens on EVERY dairy farm. The only thing I got wrong is that if the calf is a female, they are instead raised to do exactly the same as their mother.