[TV] A Cow's Life: The True Cost of Milk? - Panorama

[B-right-on]

I did some work on a large farming establishment 4/5 years ago, conditions the cows and pigs were kept in was awful.

Most of them don't ever see grass, just concrete sheds and floors.

I don't understand how milk can be sold cheaper than bottled water. Yes I know about the price squeeze and the subsidies, but thats just wrong.

 

[Baldseagull]

That’s a varied issue. Oat milk is said to be very good in terms of carbon emissions, Hemp milk still better if you can find it. Almond milk is thought to be hugely damaging to the bee population. Nothing’s ever simple.

I think all monoculture is pretty bad for bees and other pollinators. The issue is the size of the orchards or fields given over to single crops, without margins for wild plants. Most farms transport bees to crops at the right time for their crop, these ensure good pollination for the farmer, but they reduce the available pollen and nectar for wild pollinators, and once that crop has blossomed, there is no other blossom in the area.
Europe is generally better than the US

 

[BadFish]

The only thing we can do about this is to try and buy food that has the least amount of suffering possible. Same with clothes and everything else we purchase.

I am far from perfect but I am trying.

My wife's family owned a beef farm in a dairy area here in Aus and all the cattle were out in paddocks and grazing. Slowly though the dairy's squeezed the price down and encouraged everyone to invest hundred and thousands in rotary dairies. Then while in debt they squeezed the prices more and more. I wonder now how many are involved in intensive farming now in order to make ends meet. Probably not that many as lost sold up and moved away.

 

[AstroSloth]

My take away was that food is too cheap and everything from welfare to the environment suffers as a result. Hope the next panorama exposes the damage milk substitutes cause the environment and the amount of additives they contain

They do far less environmental damage than dairy. They use less land, less blue water and produce less greenhouse gases than the equivalent amount of cow's milk.

People point to soy milk as being the cause of the destruction of the Amazon rainforest. In reality 90% of soy grown there goes to livestock feed.

Same with people pointing at almonds being grown in California being terrible for the environment and using huge amounts of water. Almonds for almond milk in the UK are grown in Spain and are watered by rainwater.

 

[AstroSloth]

Thats what most people dont understand. Food is too cheap and to make it that cheap things have to be done a certain way. Do people in general want cheap food or are they happy to pay more for higher welfare food or even turn Vegan? Its easy to have morals when you can afford to but less so when you are struggling.
Ive not watched the programme, its there to make a point and are rarely balanced, but I have spent time on the farm that supplies our shop. The cows are in a field all day (Unless the weather and state of the fields are too bad). get milked in the shed and then back out again. Twice a day. Our milk is not as cheap as supermarket milk but it is a lot nicer and has travelled a lot less. There are always choices.

In the dairy or meat industry, food miles make up a tiny fraction of the carbon emissions.

 

[AstroSloth]

That’s a varied issue. Oat milk is said to be very good in terms of carbon emissions, Hemp milk still better if you can find it. Almond milk is thought to be hugely damaging to the bee population. Nothing’s ever simple.

Almond milk in the UK tends to come from Almonds grown in Southern Spain. Much better for the environment than the ones grown in California.

 

[Jim in the West]

If you're still a milk drinker, I'd really encourage you to try oat milk. It took me a couple of days to get used to it, but after that it's all upside - it's "creamier" (which gives a flat white a nice bit of extra body!) You can store it (unopened) for absolutely ages, and it seems to last ages in the fridge, too (once opened). My personal favourite is Oatly barista, which is slightly more expensive than cows milk. But even without the environmental upsides, I'd still choose oat milk over cows. Give it a try!!

 

[beorhthelm]

In the dairy or meat industry, food miles make up a tiny fraction of the carbon emissions.

have to note double counting going on there. i.e. counting cheese emissions and the beef dairy too. also there's no land use change for beef in Europe, nor is there much feed used. thats why locality of meat matters, more than transport, as much of the cost doesnt apply here. also CO2 absorbtion of the livestock and feedstock is not being counted.

on flip side the count for soymilk is suspicious, is it somehow only produced from established farms? soy itself is missing entirely.

 

[cunning fergus]

You may be right but little by little the tide is turning on this stuff. I’m almost 50. Turned veggie a year back. Have massively cut down on dairy and am edging towards (gasp) going vegan. Just an increased awareness over time that all this stuff we like to think of as benign comes at a cost, whether it be environmental or to other sentient beings.

I know, I know. Bore off etc…

You may be making a fair point in this country and particularly with the younger generations, however globally the picture is less rosy.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/feeding-9-billion/

The world is heading to a global population of 9bn by 2050 and in general terms there are populations within developing countries that are getting richer. As these populations and countries get richer their demands for new food and meat increase.

For instance one of the U.K. biggest exports to China is pig semen, as over half the worlds pigs are cultivated in that one country, and the semen is needed to help prevent in breeding given the rapacious demand for pork there. In a lifetime China has gone from a predominantly agrarian society living sustainably on very little meat to a fully developed first world country with an appetite to match.

As with other “climate change” preventions, sadly whatever we do here is not going to have any material affect.

 

[knocky1]

Same with people pointing at almonds being grown in California being terrible for the environment and using huge amounts of water. Almonds for almond milk in the UK are grown in Spain and are watered by rainwater.

World Trade is more complicated than that. Spain imports more of it's almond production from the US than it grows.
"Spain is an important trade hub for the re-export of Californian almonds within Europe, which usually arrive to the port of Barcelona. Spain re-exports on average more than 80% (approximately 80 thousand tonnes) of its shelled almond imports to other European countries."

These almonds do indeed come from ����.

 

[cunning fergus]

This. Lot of time for Dairy Farmers like close friends of mine who care more for their animals than anyone with a passing interest would care to know. Dairy Industry too vast anyhow to tar everyone with same brush. Don’t need to watch anything to know that. So hope people also realise many Farmers work incredibly long hours implementing the highest standards and producing great products for a pittance really.

Couldn’t agree more, my local has a number of farm workers in there, and they care about their animals.

The local dairy provide veal regularly to the pub in order to ensure calves are slaughtered locally and not shipped to Europe where there is a far bigger appetite for that meat.

It may be counter intuitive but if you love animals and want to support farmers then you should eat veal.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Ultimately I'm too selfish to change. I like milk, yoghurt, cheese. I like the protein shake after the gym.

There must be countless animals and humans that have suffered so that I can live the lifestyle I live, we might as well add a few more cows to the list.

 

[nicko31]

I love these exposes. They’re like University research where for £2million they’ve prove beyond doubt that wheels are round.

Frankly most people couldn’t give a shit and that’s the truth. Hence why it happens.

Next week: Free range chicken which ain’t that free….

Sadly you are right.

Personally have bought organic milk for about a decade, its worth the small premium for better animal husbandry not to mention all the anti-biotics and the way UK food standard are going who knows what else

Hopefully, we are not far away from lab milk and diary farming can be largely binned.

 

[beorhthelm]

i looked at the source for one of those protien foods (Huel?). beans and grains harvested from South America, Africa, South East Asia, shipped to US to be processed and formulated, about 10 kilo for every kilo protein. does anyone evaluate the true impact of that, to land use and local food prices? i'd rather have nice bit of local grass fed tasty protein thanks.

 

[portlock seagull]

while im here, i looked at the source for one of those protien foods (Huel?). beans and grains harvested from South America, Africa, South East Asia, shipped to US to be processed and formulated, about 10 kilo for every kilo protein. does anyone evaluate the true impact of that, to land use and local food prices? i'd rather have nice bit of local grass fed tasty protein thanks.

No, although ‘sustainability’ is all the rage currently yet no one can decide what it really means from an audit perspective. It’ll probably take years to define, never be upheld and of course by then be too late. I’m cynical with good reason. See far too many c suites never walking the talk.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It may be counter intuitive but if you love animals and want to support farmers then you should eat veal.

Interesting. Is it the same for Foie gras?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

i looked at the source for one of those protien foods (Huel?). beans and grains harvested from South America, Africa, South East Asia, shipped to US to be processed and formulated, about 10 kilo for every kilo protein. does anyone evaluate the true impact of that, to land use and local food prices? i'd rather have nice bit of local grass fed tasty protein thanks.

I could probably run the Brighton wind farm for a month on that. Pros and cons.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I saw this on the news earlier. Shocking. I found the footage deeply upsetting.
I'm a meat eater and hypocritically an animal lover,but I do try to eat higher welfare meat and less of it these days.
The way farms operate makes me so angry, they've been getting away with this and worse for generations.

Sorry, but need to pull you up on this. The mass production farms are indeed an abomination and don't treat their livestock well. Small independent farmers do the right thing. My Uncle, now retired, owned a deer farm which also contained cows, sheep, pigs, geese and ducks ( along with a few free range chickens ). All were treated with kindness and respect - I get some people don't like meat, or indeed dairy if you're a vegan, but to tar all farmers with the same brush is wrong.

Moral of the story ? Buy from your small independent farmer.

 

[BBassic]

I'm trying to cut down on animal products. My other half is vegetarian which means I'm basically vegetarian at this point.

When I do eat meat it's more or less only chicken and solely from farms I've done some research into.

 

[cunning fergus]

Interesting. Is it the same for Foie gras?

I may be wrong but hasn’t the UK Government banned production and more recently, since Brexit, importation of Foie Gras in the UK? I suspect neither production or importation of it into other EU countries is banned in the EU.

If you love geese and their welfare you should support Brexit.