70th Anniversary of the Liberation of Auschwitz.

[User removed 4]

I'll be going to Dachau in March. The horrors that went on in these places must never be allowed to happen again.

Ever heard of a place called srebrenica ? We allowed the same shit to happen again in Yugoslavia.

 

[theboybilly]

There was a discussion on Radio 4 earlier today, about the fact that the Daily Telegraph had carried a report as early as 1942 to the effect that 700,000 Jews had been murdered in Poland by the Nazis. But this story failed to make the front page of the paper and was largely ignored by other media, including the BBC. The discussion centred on the apparent fact that it was very odd that nobody noticed the story, which was the first mention in the British press of anything resembling the holocaust.

This got me thinking too. And I regret to say that I wondered whether the fact that nobody seemed bothered at the time was because the story was "only" about Jews. Is it wrong to imagine that anti-semitism was institutionally entrenched in British society even during the war? And that the horror that we have today for the holocaust might be something that took a good few years after 1945 to take hold?

I'm now in my 61st year and through my life I have seen many instances of intolerance and racism whether it to be towards the black community (including asians) and now towards the Muslim community. But in all those years I have never witnessed anti-semitism - not once. London's East End always had a strong Jewish community and me coming from just south of the river spent quite a bit of my time in that area. They were great days. I don't think Britain has ever had a strong anti-semitic feeling apart from the Mosley hotheads in the 30s. I am proud that Britain did so much to take in Jewish refugees from the occupied countries but we could have done so much more had we known the truth at the time.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Unbelievably a holocaust denier kicked off the radio five phone in this morning, he'd lied to get through. Nicky Campbell rightly cut him off and really the idiot who'd phoned in just underlined why we should commemorate today. Those that deny it ever happened just do so because they know the pain it will cause. Their soul purpose is to cause offence towards Jews in the main. Fortunately they're in a tiny tiny minority ie Even most pro nazis acknowledge the holocaust happened, they just believed there was good reason for it!

Just used 'listern again' Portlock he should been allowed to speak and then you take him to task,film footage is all there for anyone to view. We all know it happened,so bang in some facts and figures to those who deny it,just take them to pieces by sound debate.

 

[Everest]

No Moralising - Just thought it ought to be remembered.

Couldn't find a thread specifically about it elsewhere - one about a documentary programme a couple of days ago (which I missed).

Thought it deserved its own thread in remembrance of the up to 12,000 people per day who died in there and similar places.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/holocaust-night-will-fall/on-demand

 

[carteater]

It's just absolutely stunning that such a disgusting act against fellow humans actually happened and was allowed to happen, and I hope something like that never happens again, it just makes me sick to think about it.

R.I.P to all of those that were killed in this brutal act against humanity.

 

[Mowgli37]

Ever heard of a place called srebrenica ? We allowed the same shit to happen again in Yugoslavia.

The human race never learns unfortunately.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The human race never learns unfortunately.

More recently the Hutus & Tutsis have been trying to wipe each other out. Several groups have attacked the Kurds.

 

[cunning fergus]

There was a discussion on Radio 4 earlier today, about the fact that the Daily Telegraph had carried a report as early as 1942 to the effect that 700,000 Jews had been murdered in Poland by the Nazis. But this story failed to make the front page of the paper and was largely ignored by other media, including the BBC. The discussion centred on the apparent fact that it was very odd that nobody noticed the story, which was the first mention in the British press of anything resembling the holocaust.

This got me thinking too. And I regret to say that I wondered whether the fact that nobody seemed bothered at the time was because the story was "only" about Jews. Is it wrong to imagine that anti-semitism was institutionally entrenched in British society even during the war? And that the horror that we have today for the holocaust might be something that took a good few years after 1945 to take hold?

That may be true, however it should be contrasted with levels of anti semitism at that time in Europe.

For example, Vichy France and many tens of thousands of French people happily collaborated with the Germans in handing over their Jewish citizens, better Hitler than Blum, as the saying went at the time,

They were so committed that the French sought to round up French Jews in their colonies, a step not even requested by the Germans.

There is a 4 hour documentary about the extent of French collaboration "Sorrow and Pity" which interviews those involved in collaboration and resistance. Worth watching, it was made in the sixties, but France essentially embargoed it till the 80s........I think it got an Oscar.

I came across it in another documentary years ago about collaboration in France. That was shocking in itself; it had a particularly poignant story where an old frenchwoman explained how her Jewish husband and son were denounced as Jews by their local village policeman, and handed over to the Germans.

After the war, for years, she had to walk past a road where he would usually be directing traffic............nothing ever happened to him, unimaginable stuff.

 

[Buzzer]

More recently the Hutus & Tutsis have been trying to wipe each other out. Several groups have attacked the Kurds.

I'm not sure the Tutsis had a chance to wipe anyone out seeing as it was the Hutus that wiped out nearly 3/4 of all Tutsis in Rwanda.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'll be going to Dachau in March. The horrors that went on in these places must never be allowed to happen again.

they have , the balkan conflict for instance and the following war crimes trials in the Hague
regards
DR

 

[Mowgli37]

they have , the balkan conflict for instance and the following war crimes trials in the Hague
regards
DR

I should clarify, I wasn't saying these kind of things hadn't happened. I was saying they shouldn't be allowed to happen again.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I should clarify, I wasn't saying these kind of things hadn't happened. I was saying they shouldn't be allowed to happen again.

But they have , what are you blabbing on about
regards
DR

 

[Mowgli37]

But they have , what are you blabbing on about
regards
DR

I shouldn't have bothered replying considering it's you

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Special mention for the Swiss who at the time were a neutral country but allowed train transports to the camps to pass through their country
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I shouldn't have bothered replying considering it's you

have i said something wrong then
Regards
DR

 

[Leekbrookgull]

PPF,was that their trade-off ? Serious,as i don't know.

 

[A mex eyecan]

and for all those stolen lives, infants ripped from their desperate mothers, fathers helpless to defend their little children who's desparing cries would ring in his ears for all eternity, the same grown men watching as their cherished parents who's aging dignity was trampled into the dirt, their frailty disregarded, humans still choose to whip up hatred amongst peoples who by chance of birth means they are black, brown, white, pink or yellow. The same lottery of birth made them born into Judaism, budism, Christianity or any other faith. Their upbringing and life chances dictated by a poverty or richness that shapes their futures without the new born infant having any influence on its outcome.

so just maybe we all need to sometimes need to step back and take a good look at ourselves, every single comment made, every ill thought even left unsaid makes the chances of our eternal capability of absolute evilness a possibility of seeing such unimaginable horrors happening all over again.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

PPF,was that their trade-off ? Serious,as i don't know.

I think there was an" agreement" with the Germans, I think they paid the Swiss for the use ? remember a programe on the subject but it was a while back
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I read somewhere that the Aushwitz camps were generating more electricity than Berlin at the height of their operations , IG farben the manufacturers of death
regards
DR

 

[Theatre of Trees]

There was a discussion on Radio 4 earlier today, about the fact that the Daily Telegraph had carried a report as early as 1942 to the effect that 700,000 Jews had been murdered in Poland by the Nazis. But this story failed to make the front page of the paper and was largely ignored by other media, including the BBC. The discussion centred on the apparent fact that it was very odd that nobody noticed the story, which was the first mention in the British press of anything resembling the holocaust.

This got me thinking too. And I regret to say that I wondered whether the fact that nobody seemed bothered at the time was because the story was "only" about Jews. Is it wrong to imagine that anti-semitism was institutionally entrenched in British society even during the war? And that the horror that we have today for the holocaust might be something that took a good few years after 1945 to take hold?

Actually it was a mixture of the largely untrue German atrocity stories by the UK press during WW1 and a general disbelief over what was being reported. Both UK government and press were more muted during WW2 uncertain if stories like the destruction of the Jews would actually be believed - hence both played it safe. There is a story from Jan Karski, a Pole who smuggled himself into Auschwitz to gather information, got himself out then travelled across occupied Europe to the Allies and later met both UK and US leaders. In a meeting with the later he hold his story and was approached by a member of the government that he frankly could not believe it.

It really wasn't until camps were liberated particularly by the West that the full scale of the horror was revealed.