5p for a carrier bag......!!

[kjgood]

so why are the massive volumes of other plastic packaging being addressed? apples that come in styrofoam and plastic covering? cereal liners? of course you need some packaging to hold/protect the goods in transit. as i do when I've popped into the supermarket for a half dozen items to carry home.

i completely accept they dont fully biodegrade, but the impact of that? infinitesimal in the grand scheme. i ditched an broken vacuum this weekend, i wonder how many bags worth of plastic were contained therein? the original anti-bag argument was over them being a blight in the landscape because they cause litter, ignoring the presence of all other litter. a degradable bag is still litter as it flutters around for weeks. its a fig leaf policy that doesn't address any real environmental issue, but is high profile so people feel "something is being done".

Absolutely agree about the over packaging of most goods that are on sale in the shops and this isnt limited to just food. Until manufacturers or possibly retailers are charged for the disposal costs of packaging on a product and not just as standard business waste, but based on the environmental damage of the packaging, then they will continue to over pack. Apples and bananna's are good examples, they already have the best packaging nature could think of.....the skin/peel. Why put them in a nice little tray with plastic film over?

 

[beorhthelm]

I realise the focus of this thread is England but worldwide, it is estimated that there are more than 1 trillion plastic bags produced, equating to 100 million barrels of oil. Surely any effort that will reduce this consumption, however small, is welcome.

i do like it when people use big numbers to make a point without any frame of reference. i was curious what the number is, apparently the proportion of oil for *all* plastic is about 3-4% of the barrel. difficult to get a firm number, in 10 min (im not that interested). for some perspective though, that 100 million barrels is a little more than one single day's oil consumption. and the reduced consumption of bags wont make a jot of difference to oil consumption, as the plastics are by-product of the main product. no-one is digging up oil for the few % used in plastics, let alone the 0.001% used for carrier bags. it will be used in other products, or if theres no use simply be dumped.

 

[Perkino]

when I heard this was going to be introduced I started online shopping for my food. Had 2 months of bliss, no walking round a supermarket and only buying what I need.

I shall not be paying for a carrier bag

 

[kjgood]

i do like it when people use big numbers to make a point without any frame of reference. i was curious what the number is, apparently the proportion of oil for *all* plastic is about 3-4% of the barrel. difficult to get a firm number, in 10 min (im not that interested). for some perspective though, that 100 million barrels is a little more than one single day's oil consumption. and the reduced consumption of bags wont make a jot of difference to oil consumption, as the plastics are by-product of the main product. no-one is digging up oil for the few % used in plastics, let alone the 0.001% used for carrier bags. it will be used in other products, or if theres no use simply be dumped.

Yes understand your point on the amount of oil used in bag manufacture, and I also appreciate that a lot of bags are made from recycled plastics anyway. However I think the intent to reduce the amount of bags being used throughout England and Wales is more aimed at landfill, environmental and pure rubbish polution rather than oil consumption. Plastic is a fantastic product until you want to get rid of it.

 

[GT49er]

Rubbish [and it IS] A no brainer. I'd make it 20p. OK it won't stop every selfish scum littering the countryside but it helps a lot. You could offset it by having a maximum charge of 10p for using public loos.

Public loos? What public loos? They've been abolished and either bricked up or demolished in most places.

 

[GT49er]

Other posters are correct, the Government do not receive the 5p charged,companies calculate the monies collected and send to their nominated charity.

Actually I'd rather it did go to the government, so long as it was ring fenced for something worthwhile - the NHS, for example.
There are so many 'charities' around these days, not all of them wonderful, and some of them paying pretty hefty salaries to CEOs, directors, etc. I'd be happier if I knew for certain my 5Ps were genuinely going to a good cause.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Judging by the hysteria generated by the 5p carrier bags, maybe B&H council should consider introducing a 5p congestion charge for private motorists. The roads would be suddenly empty.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Actually I'd rather it did go to the government, so long as it was ring fenced for something worthwhile - the NHS, for example.
There are so many 'charities' around these days, not all of them wonderful, and some of them paying pretty hefty salaries to CEOs, directors, etc. I'd be happier if I knew for certain my 5Ps were genuinely going to a good cause.

I agree. Apparently the government will make £20m off VAT from the new tax. Also AFAIK giving the money to charity is recommended, not compulsory.

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

This is a great video

[yt]uddRauCnnY4[/yt]

 

[beorhthelm]

as people adapt to simply buying a "bag for life" for 10p rather than a couple of basic ones for 5p, how much will the supermarkets make? no recommendation to give that cash to charity afaik.

 

[Mackenzie]

We've had the bag charge in Wales for years, you get used to bringing your own bags shopping. It honestly isn't a big deal.

As for the charity side of things, some shops donate their 5p's and some don't, but the bigger chains that donate keep a bit of a running score of how much has gone to charity, it's tens of thousands in some cases.

 

[Norman Potting]

Not really something to get worked up about - I did find it odd and a little depressing that the BBC News this morning was running with this as a headline with the sad murder of a PC in second place.

 

[Norman Potting]

Mayhem out there.

I am sure that this paper is deliberately a very clever satire on itself.

 

[Diego Napier]

i do like it when people use big numbers to make a point without any frame of reference. i was curious what the number is, apparently the proportion of oil for *all* plastic is about 3-4% of the barrel. difficult to get a firm number, in 10 min (im not that interested). for some perspective though, that 100 million barrels is a little more than one single day's oil consumption. and the reduced consumption of bags wont make a jot of difference to oil consumption, as the plastics are by-product of the main product. no-one is digging up oil for the few % used in plastics, let alone the 0.001% used for carrier bags. it will be used in other products, or if theres no use simply be dumped.

Sigh; I repeat:
Obviously plastic bags are not the only source of this pollution but baby steps and mighty oaks and all that.
and
I realise the focus of this thread is England but worldwide, it is estimated that there are more than 1 trillion plastic bags produced, equating to 100 million barrels of oil. Surely any effort that will reduce this consumption, however small, is welcome?

And i do like it when people like you make statements as though they are facts and actually they have just made them up to suit their viewpoint. And i do like it when people like you then go on to ridicule information provided to them in an effort to prop up their own flimsy argument. And i do like it when people like you totally ignore other significant elements of a counter argument because they have no answer.

Perhaps like you, we should all just wke up and say sod it, let's not make a small start to addressing pollution problems by persuading people to reuse shopping bags as it is just such a colossally inconvenient disruption to take a bag to the supermarket or buy one for the bank-breaking sum of 5p?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

If the introduction of 5p carrier bags is the worst the Daily Mail, or any other tabloid, has to scream about for a headline, then it tells you all you need to know about that publication and the state of the nation as a whole. 'First world problems' doesn't even BEGIN to cover it. Pathetic.

 

[beorhthelm]

And i do like it when people ...

i'm glad we're both having fun then. though i have not made up facts (feel free to provide the amount of oil used for plastic, i wasnt going spend more than a few minutes looking*) and did not ignored an element of the counter argument. i just dont accept that its meaningful in the grand scheme of thing. yes, i dont believe we should be addressing pollution at this level, it is completely the wrong end, and those numbers i put on oil use serve to highlight how utterly pointless this action will be. but people will feel that its positive, im sure another funded study will prove so many thousands of birds have been saved by this one action, so many tons waste avoided. meanwhile the other 99.999% of pollution problems continue.

and tbf i have no problem with using substantial bags for the weekly shop, the inconvenience factor is for those occasions when popping in the shops at other times. and the principle that because of a few that litter, literally millions have to have this imposed on them. and that this wont stop littering, only one piece of litter.


* lets be very clear, assuming the plastic equivalent to 100 million barrel of oil (i assume you didn't make that up), the point is this measure wont prevent another 100 million bbl being pumped up. they get oil for many other products and the plastics are a small fraction, insignificant economically compared to the primary purposes of fuel and chemical feedstocks

 

[MattBackHome]

as people adapt to simply buying a "bag for life" for 10p rather than a couple of basic ones for 5p, how much will the supermarkets make? no recommendation to give that cash to charity afaik.

They were giving them out free in Tescos at the wekend.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I've sent an email to colleagues today that I have a large mound of carrier bags if anyone wants to use one on a lunchtime visit to the local Tezzies. Of course, I went there at lunchtime, and completely forgot to take a bag with me. This made me shop a bit differently, returning to work with nowt but a small tomato couscous pot, a 4-pack of KitKat chunky's (the cinema this evening approaches and I was mildly wound up yesterday by the excessive wrapping plastic on my girlfriend's favourite, the Kinder Bueno, when watching Macbeth, AND they're only a nugget) and a mere brace of bananas. I had to calculate what I could fit into my pockets. I probably looked rather dodgy inserting said products into my pouches to make sure they'd fit, but my explanation was prepared.

 

[Diego Napier]

i'm glad we're both having fun then. though i have not made up facts (feel free to provide the amount of oil used for plastic, i wasnt going spend more than a few minutes looking*) and did not ignored an element of the counter argument. i just dont accept that its meaningful in the grand scheme of thing. yes, i dont believe we should be addressing pollution at this level, it is completely the wrong end, and those numbers i put on oil use serve to highlight how utterly pointless this action will be. but people will feel that its positive, im sure another funded study will prove so many thousands of birds have been saved by this one action, so many tons waste avoided. meanwhile the other 99.999% of pollution problems continue.

and tbf i have no problem with using substantial bags for the weekly shop, the inconvenience factor is for those occasions when popping in the shops at other times. and the principle that because of a few that litter, literally millions have to have this imposed on them. and that this wont stop littering, only one piece of litter.


* lets be very clear, assuming the plastic equivalent to 100 million barrel of oil (i assume you didn't make that up), the point is this measure wont prevent another 100 million bbl being pumped up. they get oil for many other products and the plastics are a small fraction, insignificant economically compared to the primary purposes of fuel and chemical feedstocks

You have not made up facts?
"carrier bags do not last forever as the greens would have it, leave one out in daylight and it will disintegrate in short time"

I repeat:
"Plastic bags do not disintegrate in a short time. They are made from petroleum and do not bio-degrade; they will take anywhere between 10 and 100 years to decompose in ultraviolet light and will eventually decompose in landfill but in timeframes of hundreds of years.

You did not ignored an element of the counter argument?
You seem to have ignored the impact of plastic on the marine environment and the fact that plastic is being found in increasing quantities within the gut of zooplankton which invariably finds its way into people. These quantities are sufficient to concern scientists and stimulate their research into the short and long term implications.

5p supermarket bags are a tiny step but it is a step in the right direction. It is obvious that action is required at governmental and industrial/commercial levels and on all forms of plastic to make a significant difference but your ridicule of the initiative because it is inconvenient is uncaring at best and smacks of superciliousness.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

All this fuss over 5 pence **** me. Talk about penny pinching.