[Cricket] 3rd Ashes test: Aus vs Eng at the WACA

[Cheshire Cat]

Stokes alone wouldn't make that much of a difference to the overall performance. We would just loose by an innings and slightly less.

 

[dazzer6666]

Ali’s batting and bowling averages over the last year or so (before this series) were as good as Stokes.

 

[BensGrandad]

Ali’s batting and bowling averages over the last year or so (before this series) were as good as Stokes.

But were Woakes or Overton which is where we needed him for his pace bowling and I would assume his batting. average would have been better also,.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Ali’s batting and bowling averages over the last year or so (before this series) were as good as Stokes.

What's done is done, but I honestly believe a 26 year old Stokes in his absolute physical prime might have given the Aussies a torrid time on these pacy wickets. He is fast, aggressive and gets reverse swing, and his fielding is electric.

 

[The Birdman]

If we had a few extra runs on the board and bowled a bit better in the first innings the wicket now is showing we might have given Australia a hard time in the last innings.
If we get away with this one and up our game could still rescue the series. Oh dear spoke to soon Malan gone.

 

[banjo]

They think it's all over......... oh wrong sport.

 

[bhafc99]

All over.

 

[jakarta]

Can we just concede Melbourne and Sydney?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWd9mqC80BU

 

[vegster]

Usual post mortem on TMS, no solutions other than to miracle up some fast bowlers who don't exist. By the sound of Bayliss this was a hopeless task before we got on the plane.

 

[Gwylan]

Innings defeat after posting 400, I wonder how many times that's happened?

The Guardian has answered this:

Teams to score 400 in first innings and lose by innings

Inns and 75 - England, Chennai 2016
inns and 41 - England, Perth, 2017
Inns and 39 - England, Oval, 1930
Inns and 36 - England, Mumbai, 2016
Inns and 18 - Pakistan, MCG, 2016
Inns and 14 - Sri Lanka, Cardiff, 2011

That's incredible.In 139 years of test matches, it had happened just three times and England have now done it three times in just over a year

 

[mwrpoole]

Usual post mortem on TMS, no solutions other than to miracle up some fast bowlers who don't exist. By the sound of Bayliss this was a hopeless task before we got on the plane.

This fast bowler thing. In England they probably wouldn't get much of a game, the county set up plays half the games in April, May & September when wickets are green & slow. A medium-fast bowler who can do a bit with the ball is far more effective & in demand - see Magoffin - superb for Sussex but never had a sniff of a Test cap for Australia.

That session under the lights in Adelaide when it was swinging around Jimmy was virtually unplayable. Smith the best batsman in the world couldn't get near the ball. We'll regain the Ashes in England but then lose 5-0 again down under. It is what it is.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This fast bowler thing. In England they probably wouldn't get much of a game, the county set up plays half the games in April, May & September when wickets are green & slow. A medium-fast bowler who can do a bit with the ball is far more effective & in demand - see Magoffin - superb for Sussex but never had a sniff of a Test cap for Australia.

That session under the lights in Adelaide when it was swinging around Jimmy was virtually unplayable. Smith the best batsman in the world couldn't get near the ball. We'll regain the Ashes in England but then lose 5-0 again down under. It is what it is.

I don't think we will. It has always been tight in England, 3-2 last series, weather you could argue saved us in 2013. I think we'll be struggling with our batting and bowling next time they're here, whereas they'll be at the top of their game.

You can make the argument about bowling, but Jimmy, Bresnan, Tremlett and Finn tore them to bits in 2011.

Don't think its enough to say it is conditions, especially given we have just won all 3 tosses and the batsman have failed each time. We really haven't given our bowlers any plaform this series. They can do it in Aussie conditions, but you have to give them something to work with.

 

[Simster]

Don't think its enough to say it is conditions, especially given we have just won all 3 tosses and the batsman have failed each time. We really haven't given our bowlers any plaform this series. They can do it in Aussie conditions, but you have to give them something to work with.

I broadly agree with this - the real issue in the tests so far has been that too many of our batsmen have thrown away their wickets. To have any sort of chance, we needed Cook and Root to bat to their best ability, and they've both been woeful. The only real bright spot has been Malan's performance. All of that said, we do need some proper quicks to replace Anderson (age) and Broad (age and performance) if we are to ever compete IN Australia.

But maybe it's time for the ECB to recognise that they're doing a shìt job of making the sport accessible to working class lads? I've seen enough evidence of the sport marginalising middle class boys who don't go to private school, so God knows how they expect talent to rise from council estates.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I broadly agree with this - the real issue in the tests so far has been that too many of our batsmen have thrown away their wickets. To have any sort of chance, we needed Cook and Root to bat to their best ability, and they've both been woeful. The only real bright spot has been Malan's performance. All of that said, we do need some proper quicks to replace Anderson (age) and Broad (age and performance) if we are to ever compete IN Australia.

But maybe it's time for the ECB to recognise that they're doing a shìt job of making the sport accessible to working class lads? I've seen enough evidence of the sport marginalising middle class boys who don't go to private school, so God knows how they expect talent to rise from council estates.

Make you right, Simster. Cricket just isn't a large participation sport in this country. If it ever was, it isn't any more. The whole sport from juniors upwards is largely (if not quite not wholly) based around private schools, and everything from lack of playing fields, to teachers being overworked and having less free time, and much else besides make it tougher to get the talent from state schools. I don't know what the ECB do with their grass-roots initiative millions, but I hope they aren't wasting it as badly as the LTA do.

 

[Eeyore]

The Guardian has answered this:

Teams to score 400 in first innings and lose by innings

Inns and 75 - England, Chennai 2016
inns and 41 - England, Perth, 2017
Inns and 39 - England, Oval, 1930
Inns and 36 - England, Mumbai, 2016
Inns and 18 - Pakistan, MCG, 2016
Inns and 14 - Sri Lanka, Cardiff, 2011

That's incredible.In 139 years of test matches, it had happened just three times and England have now done it three times in just over a year

I suspect this is more to do with the faster scoring rates at Test level now. An innings of 400 can be completed before lunch on the second day now. I seem to remember us achieving it in one day during the 2005 series.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

.... But maybe it's time for the ECB to recognise that they're doing a shìt job of making the sport accessible to working class lads? I've seen enough evidence of the sport marginalising middle class boys who don't go to private school, so God knows how they expect talent to rise from council estates.

The grass roots cricket in state schools has been supported by "Chance to Shine" - I coached on this programme for 6 years - it's target was to get schools feeding local clubs, an introduction to the next level. It was also curriculum based [the PE lesson] so specifically designed to attract females. The women's game, esp at International level, is now very strong - e.g. we are the ODI world champions.

ECB lost bucket loads of funding [much of which went into grass roots] when Sky pulled the plug on Cricket Coaching sponsorship - I think the money was probably diverted to the premier league because it was needed there ....

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Why can't Broad bat anymore? Wasn't there a time he batted at like 7/8 and was considered a genuine all-rounder? Now they might as well pull straws for 11 at the bottom of the order.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'll throw another factor into the mix - the kid's football season going on well into summer.

What chance do cricket clubs have of getting kids in April / May when that's the start of the tournament season that usually goes 'til late June but this year went into July.

My son is 11 and played 6 or 7 tournaments after the league season ended late April / early May. Clubs like the tournaments because you can raise some decent money in just one weekend, kids like them because there's lots of game time and a chance of trophies and medals.

 

[BensGrandad]

What are the chances of changes before the next test? If so what are the options? Could phone CPS and ask for an update on Stokes or the selectors could bite the bullet and just include him.

 

[jakarta]

Why can't Broad bat anymore? Wasn't there a time he batted at like 7/8 and was considered a genuine all-rounder? Now they might as well pull straws for 11 at the bottom of the order.

He got his nose splattered all over his face by an Indian Fast Bowler a few years back.