3 UK Schoolgirls gone to Syria

[Nibble]

If it's the West to blame why does Isis pay us back by gang raping 6 year old Muslim girls in Syria? Very odd way to teach the West a lesson surely?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

No wonder everyone wants to move this to this country. Religion is used to exploit our democracy, and when someone does bad inside that religion your not allowed to say anything because that then becomes Islamaphobic. Our democracy is now becoming our biggest downfall on this front.

 

[Nibble]

Muslim extremists have one goal: to forcibly convert the world to Islam. That is their one absolute goal. They have stated it time and time again. So why does anyone think they would have left the West alone if we had followed different foreign policy? They've stated themselves that they would have targeted the West in order to convert us whatever way we had acted.

You know why people like Mustafa blame the West don't you? It's not because he believes we are to blame it's because he wants someone to blame so he can sleep at night. Better that something rational is found to be the reason , no matter whether it is accurate or not ,than to actually believe there is a large group of fanatics who wish to harm us for no other reason than pure evil. He's scared and this helps him sleep at night. Understandable I suppose.

 

[BadFish]

Muslim extremists have one goal: to forcibly convert the world to Islam. That is their one absolute goal. They have stated it time and time again. So why does anyone think they would have left the West alone if we had followed different foreign policy? They've stated themselves that they would have targeted the West in order to convert us whatever way we had acted.

You know why people like Mustafa blame the West don't you? It's not because he believes we are to blame it's because he wants someone to blame so he can sleep at night. Better that something rational is found to be the reason , no matter whether it is accurate or not ,than to actually believe there is a large group of fanatics who wish to harm us for no other reason than pure evil. He's scared and this helps him sleep at night. Understandable I suppose.

I must say it would all be much simpler to undestand if this was the case. I am suspicious of the idea that religion in itself was a good enough reason for such hosility (a 20 year old BF would have agreed wholeheartedly but these days i am not so sure.) Do you have a link to where they have stated that they would have targeted the west however we had acted? I have not read this and would be very interested.

 

[BadFish]

To summarise - I consider the actions of Western governments in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya to be directly responsible for the wave of terrorism that the world is currently enduring.

I would agree and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that this is the case. Having said that I think that they are not entirely to blame and there is undoubtedly religious nut jobbery out there. H Shades of grey do not sit well with many on NSC and I think this is where much of the confusion lies.

However I think that the nut jobs would lose a huge and important part of their key audience if western governments kept their sticky oil covered fingers out of the middle east. I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Islam would find it much easier to "get their house in order" if they could do this without bombs dropping down on their congregations heads (and all the assorted difficulties that come with this)

 

[beorhthelm]

...If you look at Islam historically...

i think you should, just for a short amount of time. i mean complete history, as your view seems to be based on 20th. its like pretending that there were no conflict in Europe before 1914 and therefore the only antagonists are the Germans.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Muslim extremists have one goal: to forcibly convert the world to Islam. That is their one absolute goal. They have stated it time and time again. So why does anyone think they would have left the West alone if we had followed different foreign policy? They've stated themselves that they would have targeted the West in order to convert us whatever way we had acted.

You know why people like Mustafa blame the West don't you? It's not because he believes we are to blame it's because he wants someone to blame so he can sleep at night. Better that something rational is found to be the reason , no matter whether it is accurate or not ,than to actually believe there is a large group of fanatics who wish to harm us for no other reason than pure evil. He's scared and this helps him sleep at night. Understandable I suppose.

NAIL. HEAD Nibble. Also there was an event called 9/11 BEFORE any of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which occurred as these Islamic extremists wanted to attack the USA and subsequently the West for no other reason than they HATE us, everything we are, everything we stand for and they would have done it regardless of any foreign policy and will continue to do so and they would if they had the capability, drop a nuclear warhead killing 10 000 000 innocent people on London or New York, TODAY if they could and that is an absolute guarantee

 

[RandyWanger]

NAIL. HEAD Nibble. Also there was an event called 9/11 BEFORE any of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which occurred as these Islamic extremists wanted to attack the USA and subsequently the West for no other reason than they HATE us, everything we are, everything we stand for and they would have done it regardless of any foreign policy and will continue to do so and they would if they had the capability, drop a nuclear warhead killing 10 000 000 innocent people on London or New York, TODAY if they could and that is an absolute guarantee

And yet, so many of them want to live here... Why is that? If you don't like it, f**k off to the s**t hole you call home. Simple.

 

[Hillian1]

NAIL. HEAD Nibble. Also there was an event called 9/11 BEFORE any of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which occurred as these Islamic extremists wanted to attack the USA and subsequently the West for no other reason than they HATE us, everything we are, everything we stand for and they would have done it regardless of any foreign policy and will continue to do so and they would if they had the capability, drop a nuclear warhead killing 10 000 000 innocent people on London or New York, TODAY if they could and that is an absolute guarantee

Um.

George Bush Snr had a go at Iraq in 1990, Operation Desert Storm.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Um.

George Bush Snr had a go at Iraq in 1990, Operation Desert Storm.

True, the USA are hardly blameless I know but as Nibble says these fanatics would blow us up anyway just for the simple fact we do not follow Allah

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

True, the USA are hardly blameless I know but as Nibble says these fanatics would blow us up anyway just for the simple fact we do not follow Allah

I see ...... sort of ..............

Surrender or You'll Die.

We all follow the Allahbion.

 

[Hillian1]

True, the USA are hardly blameless I know but as Nibble says these fanatics would blow us up anyway just for the simple fact we do not follow Allah

Not going to disagree with that US.

Absolute loonies.

 

[Soulman]

To summarise - I consider the actions of Western governments in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya to be directly responsible for the wave of terrorism that the world is currently enduring.

Ok, so just supposing your theory and blame is correct. How do you explain the slaughtering of their OWN in countries where the West have not been involved.
If your answer is what i expect it to be, i will pre empt this next question.
Why if their problem is with the West are they causing trouble in China, Southern Thailand and a few other non involved countries where they are trying to implement their ways etc.

 

[BadFish]

i think you should, just for a short amount of time. i mean complete history, as your view seems to be based on 20th. its like pretending that there were no conflict in Europe before 1914 and therefore the only antagonists are the Germans.

I did, the history I referred to at the birth of Islam was cited in the study I posted. I wouldn't call my self an expert in the history of Islam but the information in the link agrees with the other information I have read.

If you wish to change my mind you are going to have to produce more credible evidence than that I have already shared as at present I see no reason why I should disbelieve it.

 

[beorhthelm]

I did, the history I referred to at the birth of Islam was cited in the study I posted. I wouldn't call my self an expert in the history of Islam but the information in the link agrees with the other information I have read.

i didnt read it i confess. i have just skimmed over and it seems its addressing the matter of the perception of Islam in the west. this isnt the point im making. it ignores (because its not the topic) the scisms and conflicts within Islam. this is the point im making. just as christianity have a bloody history of internal conflict over whose interpretation is more wrong, Islam has divisions right from the start, with a split over who is the successor to Muhammad. if you want, look up Wahhabism originating from 18th century, which you will note predates "the west" interference. its the root of much the trouble now as far as i can tell, accentuating the Sunni/Shia divide. the Ottoman empire kept much of this down while around, now its open season and alot of them want to make up for lost time. Bin Laden didnt get a cob on with the west because we went into assit the Kuwait's against Iraq, he got offended that the Saudi's let the US help as that was perceived as unpure. ISIL are killing anyone who doesnt sign up to their brand of faith, not because of US invasion of Iraq, though its a catalyst allowing scope to grow, they are killing them because they consider them not good enough Muslims.

 

[BadFish]

i didnt read it i confess. i have just skimmed over and it seems its addressing the matter of the perception of Islam in the west. this isnt the point im making. it ignores (because its not the topic) the scisms and conflicts within Islam. this is the point im making. just as christianity have a bloody history of internal conflict over whose interpretation is more wrong, Islam has divisions right from the start, with a split over who is the successor to Muhammad. if you want, look up Wahhabism originating from 18th century, which you will note predates "the west" interference. its the root of much the trouble now as far as i can tell, accentuating the Sunni/Shia divide. the Ottoman empire kept much of this down while around, now its open season and alot of them want to make up for lost time. Bin Laden didnt get a cob on with the west because we went into assit the Kuwait's against Iraq, he got offended that the Saudi's let the US help as that was perceived as unpure. ISIL are killing anyone who doesnt sign up to their brand of faith, not because of US invasion of Iraq, though its a catalyst allowing scope to grow, they are killing them because they consider them not good enough Muslims.

I will look up the Wahhabism but i am not sure about the 18th century predating western interference. I suppose this depends on your definition of the west. The UK would certainly be deemed par tof the west and certainly had its involvement in the middle east way before that.

As I have said though in previous posts the truth of this matter probably lies somewhere in the middle. Perhaps we can accept that without both the religious nutjobs and the intervention of the west we would not be experiencing the problems we are now? I believe this to be the case and i also believe that there is only one of these factors that we have the power to do anything about.

 

[Soulman]

Here we have another parent in denial. Of course they are good boys. http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk...y-yorkshire-lads-say-their-families-1-7196352.

 

[daveinprague]

Here we have another parent in denial. Of course they are good boys. http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk...y-yorkshire-lads-say-their-families-1-7196352.

You know different?
English people (many ex army) have gone to fight/and die with the Peshmerga in Syria. Are they bad boys as well?
Who have these boys gone to join? There are several Islamic anti Assad groups fighting in Syria. Have you decided which one they have joined yet?

 

[Soulman]

You know different?
English people (many ex army) have gone to fight/and die with the Peshmerga in Syria. Are they bad boys as well?
Who have these boys gone to join? There are several Islamic anti Assad groups fighting in Syria. Have you decided which one they have joined yet?

Police have confirmed that they are investigating after receiving a report that two 17-year-old boys from Dewsbury are believed to have travelled to Syria to join Islamic State.
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/up...ewsbury-teenagers-who-fled-to-syria-released/

Ok with you.
Or would you prefer the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-yorkshire-teenagers-fled-syria-islamic-state

Note the two links were put up 6 and 7 hours ago, before your post.

 

[sir albion]

Enjoyed the bloke ripping into clegg on LBC this moring....He said"we don't want these types returning here"etc
You have to wonder just how soft and stupid we're in this country to even consider letting these types back in...FFS it's ludicrous.and beyond belief...You leave and you're not returning end of.