[Albion] 25 Man Squad - Summer 2022 Edition

[dazzer6666]

More trolling.

City were paying 50 million for fullbacks four or five years ago. Cucurella is our player of the season and has four years left on his contract, and we have no replacement. 60 million is the start point of the negotiation, not our top price.

This……seems to be one single ‘ITK’ source on twitter that this stems from. Even if it is true, other follow-ups suggesting ‘double what we paid for him’ etc are laughable.

Given what Cucu himself very publicly said about his difficulties in settling in here I seriously doubt he’s desperate for another move so soon, but if he is it’ll be a club record transfer fee.

 

[Hugo Rune]

This is a mistake Brighton fans often make with Gross. We got him at a "good price" but a good price for what he went on to do - not what he'd done before.

Sorry. Got to call that one out. We signed Pascal for around £2.7m from Ingolstadt in 2017. He signed with them in 2011 so could have well been at the end of his contract. He was 25, nearing his peak and had just got 5 goals and 6 assists for a relegated Bundesliga side from midfield positions, not as a No.10.

However, our scouts would have noticed that he got 23 assists in 14/15 in the Bundesliga.B. Sticking him in as a No.10 behind Murray for those first couple of seasons is the major reason that we survived under Hughton.

This video show that the world famous Groß-Turn had already been engineered to the level we see at the moment in his time in Germany? How much is that worth? More than £2.7m I’d wager.

https://youtu.be/p6a2xKJdDwA

£2.7m was a very good price for him looking at his German career. A huge success for our recruitment team. I think he’d have been around £10m if he’d have had 2 or 3 years on his contract.

 

[Machiavelli]

But Coventry didn't sign an 18 goal a season Championship striker, they signed one who'd scored 3 goals in 30 games. If we'd spent a million or so on a striker with that record while in the Championship there would have been a lot of people questioning it. With hindsight it looks like a bargain and that we undersold but at the time it happened it was probably about right. We may have been able to eek out a bit more from Coventry but we may well have taken a smaller transfer fee up front against a bigger sell on percentage or better future payment clauses as we all know Tony Bloom likes a bit of a gamble.

It also isn't always about the transfer fee but showing potential signings that if they can't make it to our first team squad our academy system is still producing players that play regularly at the next level and the club won't stand in the way of a player if their path to the first team is blocked. That may pay dividends long term too when we are hopefully convincing the next Ben White or Robert Sanchez that our academy is the best place for their development.

As ever, agree completely although with one exception. It's eke.
Eek is what most feel when we're subjected to a poster who's of the opinion that they should be in charge of recruitment and sales.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sorry. Got to call that one out. We signed Pascal for around £2.7m from Ingolstadt in 2017. He signed with them in 2011 so could have well been at the end of his contract. He was 25, nearing his peak and had just got 5 goals and 6 assists for a relegated Bundesliga side from midfield positions, not as a No.10.

However, our scouts would have noticed that he got 23 assists in 14/15 in the Bundesliga.B. Sticking him in as a No.10 behind Murray for those first couple of seasons is the major reason that we survived under Hughton.

This video show that the world famous Groß-Turn had already been engineered to the level we see at the moment in his time in Germany? How much is that worth? More than £2.7m I’d wager.

https://youtu.be/p6a2xKJdDwA

£2.7m was a very good price for him looking at his German career. A huge success for our recruitment team. I think he’d have been around £10m if he’d have had 2 or 3 years on his contract.

I was contemplating calling that one out too, but can't be arsed to do that research that you do. IIRC there was a release clause in Gross' contract too.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Just because the Coventry equivalent of you think that doesn't make it true. They weren't involved in the negotiation any more than you were. When he was sold he wasn't an 18 goal striker in the Championship. He's done that with Coventry and increased his value from what it was then to what it was now.

This is a mistake Brighton fans often make with Gross. We got him at a "good price" but a good price for what he went on to do - not what he'd done before.

If there are Premier League bargains to be had it's generally when a player is close to the end of his contract, so that the club get something rather than nothing, or because they have a release clause triggered (Veltman and Cucurella had release clauses that were good value but we were lucky there was no bidding war. As there wasn't the selling clubs had a contractual obligation to accept a low price)

I can't believe I've had to explain that to an adult.

Gross was still a bargain, the last season he spent in the Bundesliga he created more chances than any other player despite playing for a side that ended up being relegated. He's gone on to look even more of a bargain since he's been here, but he's a classic moneyball signing.

There is never normally a bidding war over transfer fees when it comes to players with release clauses in their contracts. Bidding more than the release clause doesn't get you any advantage as the selling club has a legal requirement to inform a player of all bids once they matches the release fee. If more than one club matches the release clause then the bidding war comes when it's time to negotiate wages etc. The power in those situations sits firmly with the player as he can take his pick of any club that has matched the release clause, the selling club are unable to only accept the highest bidders offer.

Also it works slightly differently in Spanish football, the release clause is how much it costs the player to buy out his contract, theoretically making him a free agent. Now I doubt Marc Cucurella had the 15 million (or so) Euros he needed to buy out his contract to join us, so we pay that on his behalf so it becomes in all intents and purposes a transfer fee. Obviously if you want to try and get them for less you'd negotiate with the selling club, but there is no point in going above the release clause as you are effectively spending money you don't need to.

 

[GT49er]

Just because the Coventry equivalent of you think that doesn't make it true. They weren't involved in the negotiation any more than you were. When he was sold he wasn't an 18 goal striker in the Championship. He's done that with Coventry and increased his value from what it was then to what it was now.

This is a mistake Brighton fans often make with Gross. We got him at a "good price" but a good price for what he went on to do - not what he'd done before.

If there are Premier League bargains to be had it's generally when a player is close to the end of his contract, so that the club get something rather than nothing, or because they have a release clause triggered (Veltman and Cucurella had release clauses that were good value but we were lucky there was no bidding war. As there wasn't the selling clubs had a contractual obligation to accept a low price)

I can't believe I've had to explain that to an adult.

Yes, there arr all sorts of factors invilved in transfers - we know that. However, that still leaves room for opinions - and taking into consideration all the caveats you list, some people will still have an opinion that differs from yours.
This is a discussion board - opinions will vary, even if you disagree. Nobody ever suggested the players were worth tens of £millions, but it is perfectly reasonable to be a tad disappointed we didn't get a bit more.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The question I would be asking is what was the decision making process that let Gyorkes go as opposed to retaining Connolly or signing Zequiri or Sima. What has made Gyorkes the success in the championship (be it one year) that two of the others could not deliver at same level. It's not simple I know, but we use a lot of computing power to predict who we buy, do we do the same about who we retain?

 

[Seagull58]

Just because the Coventry equivalent of you think that doesn't make it true. They weren't involved in the negotiation any more than you were. When he was sold he wasn't an 18 goal striker in the Championship. He's done that with Coventry and increased his value from what it was then to what it was now.

This is a mistake Brighton fans often make with Gross. We got him at a "good price" but a good price for what he went on to do - not what he'd done before.

If there are Premier League bargains to be had it's generally when a player is close to the end of his contract, so that the club get something rather than nothing, or because they have a release clause triggered (Veltman and Cucurella had release clauses that were good value but we were lucky there was no bidding war. As there wasn't the selling clubs had a contractual obligation to accept a low price)

I can't believe I've had to explain that to an adult.

Gross was number 1 in chances created and had 6 goal assists in the Bundesliga playing in a relegated team. We absolutely stole him and it was pretty obvious from day 1 at Brighton.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Sorry. Got to call that one out. We signed Pascal for around £2.7m from Ingolstadt in 2017. He signed with them in 2011 so could have well been at the end of his contract. He was 25, nearing his peak and had just got 5 goals and 6 assists for a relegated Bundesliga side from midfield positions, not as a No.10.

However, our scouts would have noticed that he got 23 assists in 14/15 in the Bundesliga.B. Sticking him in as a No.10 behind Murray for those first couple of seasons is the major reason that we survived under Hughton.

This video show that the world famous Groß-Turn had already been engineered to the level we see at the moment in his time in Germany? How much is that worth? More than £2.7m I’d wager.

https://youtu.be/p6a2xKJdDwA

£2.7m was a very good price for him looking at his German career. A huge success for our recruitment team. I think he’d have been around £10m if he’d have had 2 or 3 years on his contract.

The recruitment team did a good job, it's never been doubted by anyone, but largely in FINDING Gross. That sort of price for a player with not long on his contract from a relegated team is about market value. Absolutely, if he'd had a long time left on his contract and was playing with a mid-table team £10 million isn't unreasonable. But we found the circumstances and the player and, clearly, paid market rate because the selling club accepted it.

That was my whole point to GT. Players are almost never sold under market price by solvent clubs because they don't need to. There's always a factor in reduction in value, in this case contract length and relegation.

 

[chaileyjem]

The question I would be asking is what was the decision making process that let Gyorkes go as opposed to retaining Connolly or signing Zequiri or Sima. What has made Gyorkes the success in the championship (be it one year) that two of the others could not deliver at same level. It's not simple I know, but we use a lot of computing power to predict who we buy, do we do the same about who we retain?

Well it was the same management and recruitment team for all those players. In hindsight of course you might make different choices but we sold Gyokeres without the ability to see into the future. Him aside and I’d argue too early to judge - is there anyone else who has really flourished since we let them go / released them or for a small fee in last 5 or even 10 years…Goldson maybe ? Ashley Barnes ? But largely it doesn’t happen.

 

[GT49er]

Most likely? From whom? How much? The Albion won't even disclose the fees they DO get let alone the ones that no one's supposed to know about

Millwall. Albion didn't disclose anything - of course they didn't - they never do. We all know that. But widely reported at the time.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I don't disagree. Once you involve people and personalities its no longer a sience.

I am just interested in why we released him but signed others who on paper had not achieved either and who probably don't fit in our plans either.

Goldson and Barnes were different situations - Duffy did a great job here which I think a lot of people forget.

Letting Barnes go was a mistake , undervalued by teh club and a segment of the fan base.

 

[um bongo molongo]

Wonder what the plan is with Andone. Probably accounting for a fair chunk of the wage bill

 

[Frankworthington]

Well it was the same management and recruitment team for all those players. In hindsight of course you might make different choices but we sold Gyokeres without the ability to see into the future. Him aside and I’d argue too early to judge - is there anyone else who has really flourished since we let them go / released them or for a small fee in last 5 or even 10 years…Goldson maybe ? Ashley Barnes ? But largely it doesn’t happen.

Steve Cook?

Played one game for us, sold to plucky and ended up playing PL football.

 

[chaileyjem]

Contract Extension for Cochrane.

Window closes: Sept 1st 11pm. (officially opens June 10th)
u21s: Players born on or after 1 January 2001.
HGP - Home Grown Player - see definition.

Dendoncker, Baluta, Arce have all left the club.
Strong reporting that Gross and Welbeck are about to sign contract extensions.

1. Sanchez ( HGP ) (2025)
2. Steele ( HGP ) (2023)
3. Scherpen (2025)
U21. Rushworth (2025)
4. Lamptey (HGP) (2025)
U21. Karbownik (2024)
5. Cochrane (2023)
6. March ( HGP ) (2024 + option)
7. Cucurella (2026)
8. Veltman (2023 + option)
9. Webster ( HGP ) ( 2026)
10. Dunk ( HGP ) (2025)
11. Duffy ( HGP ) (2023)
12. Clarke ( HGP ) (2023)
13. van Hecke (2023)
14. Østigård (2022 presumed option to 2023)
U21. Offiah (2024)
U21. Roberts (2023)
U21. Turns (2024)
U21. Leonard (2023)
15. Mwepu (2025)
16. Bissouma (2023)
U21. Caicedo ( 2025)
U21. Jenks
U21. Kozlowski ( 2026)
17. Moder (2025)
18. Alzate ( HGP ) (2024)
19. Lallana ( HGP ) (2023)
20. Groß (2022)
21. Mac Allister (2023)
U21. Sarmiento (2026)
22. Khadra (2023)
23. Richards ( HGP ) (2024)
24. Trossard (2023 + option)
25. Mitoma (2025)
26. Maupay (2023)
27. Welbeck ( HGP ) (2022 + option)
28. Undav (2026)
29. Andone (2023)
30. Zeqiri (2024)
31. Connolly ( HGP ) (2024)
U21. Sima (2025)
U21. Ferguson

Loans out: tbc
Sales in this window: tbc
Sales out this Window: tbc

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Lots of make-it-all-up twitter accounts now repeating that Napoli want Østigård and are negotiating with us.

 

[b.w.2.]

Lots of make-it-all-up twitter accounts now repeating that Napoli want Østigård and are negotiating with us.

So JPVH IN...

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

So JPVH IN...

I hope so.

 

[b.w.2.]

I hope so.

So do I


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[Blue Valkyrie]

€4 million for Østigård.

I think we can be happy with that if the deal happens.

https://twitter.com/calciomercatoit/status/1532317695240245248?t=ayNWYWnt5CB_A1_7nquvEA&s=19