[Albion] 24 years ago today

[Hamilton]

Yes . . . . https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt

Blimey! Burnley should be very worried.

And a big question: why are the FA allowing all our clubs to be bought up as investment vehicles for banks? There will be no connection with this bank and the local area; no real care for the community; no sense of the history, and in Wall Street bankers (which their new Chairman is one), nobody who has walked to their ground, stood/sat on a terrace, screamed blue murder at their team and then enjoyed a pint in the pub on the way home. While owners of the past did not all do this, many of them at least understood the connection that the club had with its local fanbase. Today, everything has been given up in the hunt for a global fanbase and dirty cash.

By all means, get a global fanbase, but always remember that it is a revenue stream that is there to serve the local club and its supporters, not a revenue stream for bankers. We've really learned very little in the last 24 years. The same problems and villains have just got bigger and nastier.

Like some others, I was always worried when we handed control of the club to one man (something we said we would never do), but that man was a genuine Albion supporter and Brighton born and bred, and I trust him. I was prepared to turn a blind eye to it and hope all would be well, and it has been. All that said, I would like to have some aspect of local ownership enshrined in our articles of association to avoid future trouble which I fear will rear its head one day. I know that until this point, TB and PB have been against any fan ownership or representation on the board, citing the fact that they have a fan on the board in Tony. They would rather engage at arms length. But this arms length relationship does inevitably mean that the management team will lose sight and connection with the fans. Hopefully this ESL debacle will result in TB and PB rethinking their approach towards fan representation - or hopefully it will somehow be forced upon all clubs by the government/FA.

However, the longer that the ESL becomes yesterday's news, the quicker the government will take thir foot off the gas of any review of football as I'm sure they would like to avoid getting their hands dirty over it. Also, Johnson's lawyers have now no doubt told him about the legal implications of putting wrongs right, and Johnson hates things that look like real hard work. He just does the window dressing.

 

[Insel affe]

What a week that was!

My daughter was born.
We survived.
And Labour were voted into power.

You just had to go one step too far didn’t you.....

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Oh what a day. I was on a doubledecker coach of erm architects who happened to be visiting nearby Ledbury to look at something or other. This was our cunning plan to allow for several hundred pounds worth of beer to be loaded onto the coach. The plan of course failed miserably and we were forced to leave said beer on the street by Hove Town Hall (Always wondered what happened to it) Coach driver had been suitably briefed by Sussex police beforehand and no beer that was that.

We actually did end up in Ledbury briefly which was full of Albion fans before heading off into Hereford to try and find a pub. Not easy on the day but we wondered around and eventually found one. Match was a range of emotions, I walked around like a zombie at half time, the goal, the final whistle were amazing the sheer batshit mental joy behind that goal. Came out the ground straight into a punch up which we won too indecently from what I could see. Back onto the coach and off along with the other coaches and a police escort.

As we poodle along the motorway a whipround ensues on our coach which persuaded the previously uncooperative coach driver to suddenly divert up a exit ramp and off down a country lane with the police in tow, flashing blue lights behind us but they could not pass as the lane was too narrow. We reached a village and shot into the 1st pub we saw. Two policemen rushed in and demanded we leave and were politely told no. (Fairly hard to tell 70 odd blokes to leave without reinforcements) Ok 1 pint then you go, then one more pint etc etc Finally at 10pm they came in told us we were good lads and could stay till closing time!

A great night getting thoroughly hammered and singing Albion songs. We did appear to be the only ones in there mind (can't imagine why? ) but it was a fabulous night and rounded off a great day. Landlord even came out to wave us off Lol. Got back to Brighton about 2am after about 20 piss stops and another whip round for the driver Lol

We were actually the first minibus into Ledbury and parked up at the railway station then walked back into town.
There were a load of Liverpool fans waiting to get there coach to the game opposite the Hotel that was serving us all the beers.
We were trying to keep a low profile until one of our party decided he could sit in the bonnet of a passing car and go through the town singing Albion songs !!
Old Bill were waiting at the station for us and got escorted into Hereford on the train with loads of other fans.
Fighting all through the market before and after the game.
We ended up in Newbury that night with about another 200 Albion fans in the town and had a great night

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[m20gull]

What a week that was!

My daughter was born.
We survived.
And Labour were voted into power.

And we won Eurovision

 

[Mr Bridger]

And we won Eurovision

Goldstone Rap

 

[BadFish]

One can be involved and have minimal influence/control, a Friend is a minor shareholder in Burnley ( Inherited) but has been powerless of late. The club are now heavily saddled with debt.

To me this is incredible and if not part of the problem then a symptom of the problem of modern football.

That a club who have been in the premier league for so long with surely a fairly modest wage budget can be in debt beggars belief.

Surely this isn't a result of spending in players so have the owners been taking money out of the club? Does you know the details?

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Blimey! Burnley should be very worried.

And a big question: why are the FA allowing all our clubs to be bought up as investment vehicles for banks? There will be no connection with this bank and the local area; no real care for the community; no sense of the history, and in Wall Street bankers (which their new Chairman is one), nobody who has walked to their ground, stood/sat on a terrace, screamed blue murder at their team and then enjoyed a pint in the pub on the way home. While owners of the past did not all do this, many of them at least understood the connection that the club had with its local fanbase. Today, everything has been given up in the hunt for a global fanbase and dirty cash.

By all means, get a global fanbase, but always remember that it is a revenue stream that is there to serve the local club and its supporters, not a revenue stream for bankers. We've really learned very little in the last 24 years. The same problems and villains have just got bigger and nastier.

Like some others, I was always worried when we handed control of the club to one man (something we said we would never do), but that man was a genuine Albion supporter and Brighton born and bred, and I trust him. I was prepared to turn a blind eye to it and hope all would be well, and it has been. All that said, I would like to have some aspect of local ownership enshrined in our articles of association to avoid future trouble which I fear will rear its head one day. I know that until this point, TB and PB have been against any fan ownership or representation on the board, citing the fact that they have a fan on the board in Tony. They would rather engage at arms length. But this arms length relationship does inevitably mean that the management team will lose sight and connection with the fans. Hopefully this ESL debacle will result in TB and PB rethinking their approach towards fan representation - or hopefully it will somehow be forced upon all clubs by the government/FA.

However, the longer that the ESL becomes yesterday's news, the quicker the government will take thir foot off the gas of any review of football as I'm sure they would like to avoid getting their hands dirty over it. Also, Johnson's lawyers have now no doubt told him about the legal implications of putting wrongs right, and Johnson hates things that look like real hard work. He just does the window dressing.

Good post.

I'm thinking and hoping the clubs themselves will morph into something less ghastly than the ManU monolith.

30 Years ago I though that 'big business' would turn us all into grunts, servile for life, fed on pap TV and shitty food. I was red in tooth and claw (too red to join the 'party of the people/system', he labour party, even, fulminating as I was in my rightous indignation.

Fast forward, and none of the impending catastrophe happened. I lick no boots of the masters. Why? You can't **** over the income stream in a liberal democracy. If we don't like, we don't play. I give you Gerald Ratner. Yes, others have conned us and con us still, but...direction of travel is key.

We are far from Utopia. But we head in the right direction.

Command control 'for the people' failed (Mao, Stalin) because eventually people get tired of rising damp and the smell of cabbage. Fear and opression and tradition prevail in Russia and China of course. But change is happening.

The failure of the ESL was a glorious moment, and it failed because it was tat and as soon as the men in the high towers got out of their milky baths they could see they had taken their eye off the ball.

This is a connected world, now, in Europe anyway.

I see big changes ahead and they will be for our benefit. The poor may be waking up to the fact the rich need us, and the rich are not stupid. Ruthless, yes, but increasingly reckless and feckless. ESL may be a wake up to the rich. We shall see.

But....I don't see any leaders. Starmer? Molango? Christ.

The natural order of things is ****ing slow and tedious.

 

[Hamilton]

You just had to go one step too far didn’t you.....

That's just a narrative that the left and the right created.

Blair should not have gone to war in Iraq, but there were many political pressures upon him - and he believed that Saddam should be removed.

Iraq has been used as a narrative by the left to reform the Labour party (with no success) and by the right to blame Labour for every ill in the world. Too many people have just lapped that up.

Without Blair's investment in schools, hospital, tax credits etc many advances would not have been made. But, we live in a polarized world of politics and I do understand where your anger comes from.

 

[zefarelly]

To me this is incredible and if not part of the problem then a symptom of the problem of modern football.

That a club who have been in the premier league for so long with surely a fairly modest wage budget can be in debt beggars belief.

Surely this isn't a result of spending in players so have the owners been taking money out of the club? Does you know the details?

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

If you read the Grauniad article, basically club gets bought with borrowed money . . . . existing directors paid off and the club now has debt to service . . . . as opposed to directors who owned outright just for fun because they could . . . . the club had millions in the bank too about 1/4 of valuation. like all businesses . . . can it generate enough to service itself given its not owned by a charity ?

 

[Brovion]

Well thank you! I don't know the answer either. It's a shame that Attila was shot down in flames for suggesting an independent group but, judging by the majority of views on this site, it is not a surprise. Let's hope the PL, those beacons of integrity....., manage to pull something together that is vaguely useful in reducing the future casualty list.

I think 'shot down in flames' is probably a bit strong, but you're right, I remember the subject coming up and a large majority, including me, were opposed. I'm still opposed. I think it's great that some of the '******* Six' are now discussing formal fans' representations, but not all clubs are in the same position.

I also don't think its fair that those of us who are opposed are accused (not that you are accusing) of existing in some panglossian fantasy. Just because things are good now doesn't mean of course that they will always be, so as individuals we should always keep an eye on what the club are doing, check the accounts, etc, and flag up any concerns. However at the moment things ARE good, and also we have excellent lines of communication with senior club officials - Paul Barber's famous emails being proof. (As an aside if you want to gauge how happy NSC is check the moribund 'Ask The Club' section of this website. No one has raised any concerns for years).

So at the moment there is zero need for a formal or informal resurrection of BISA. We haven't got an overriding aim uniting us like getting rid of Archer, we have no equivalent of the Falmer campaign to organise - so what currently would they do? So I'd be concerned that that our 'fan representatives' would be a set of earnest, self-appointed bobble-hats with nothing better to do than to march into Paul Barber's office to complain that the coffee in the 1901 lounge wasn't coming from sustainable sources.


EDIT: The rejected word was the slang term for illegitimate.

 

[Horses Arse]

I think 'shot down in flames' is probably a bit strong, but you're right, I remember the subject coming up and a large majority, including me, were opposed. I'm still opposed. I think it's great that some of the '******* Six' are now discussing formal fans' representations, but not all clubs are in the same position.

I also don't think its fair that those of us who are opposed are accused (not that you are accusing) of existing in some panglossian fantasy. Just because things are good now doesn't mean of course that they will always be, so as individuals we should always keep an eye on what the club are doing, check the accounts, etc, and flag up any concerns. However at the moment things ARE good, and also we have excellent lines of communication with senior club officials - Paul Barber's famous emails being proof. (As an aside if you want to gauge how happy NSC is check the moribund 'Ask The Club' section of this website. No one has raised any concerns for years).

So at the moment there is zero need for a formal or informal resurrection of BISA. We haven't got an overriding aim uniting us like getting rid of Archer, we have no equivalent of the Falmer campaign to organise - so what currently would they do? So I'd be concerned that that our 'fan representatives' would be a set of earnest, self-appointed bobble-hats with nothing better to do than to march into Paul Barber's office to complain that the coffee in the 1901 lounge wasn't coming from sustainable sources.


EDIT: The rejected word was the slang term for illegitimate.

I agree mainly. We are certainly in a great period. In terms of communication then yes, there's lots of it and it is comprehensive in terms of stating what they are doing. There's a difference between dialogue and communication though. What concerns me, and I know I'll get shot for this, is the control that I see as being exerted over viewpoints. There will always be dissenters, football fans are typically deluded, ill advised and driven by emotion - I know I certainly can be. To try and control that, to monitor and exert pressure doesn't sit comfortably with me, particularly during the here and now when, as you point out, everything is fantastic. If this forum is monitored quite closely now, in the good times when it is only flasks, bottle tops, season ticket use and the odd ill advised tweet that generates debate (ignoring those that think TB should be splashing even more cash on players), what does that indicate about the bad times? There will undoubtedly be bad times. Maybe I'm too old fashioned and perhaps life is generally this way but it makes me feel uncomfortable, hence the feeling that an independent voice is important. Some might say that it is not control, it is a concern that fans viewpoints are known and understood and that is the reason for the monitoring (but I don't believe that for a minute).

Another view, a legitimate view for sure, is that it is TB's club, it would be festering in or around non league status if he didn't step and in, he's invested to extraordinary levels in the clubs infrastructure to give it a stable future regardless of ownership and he has plans for his family to be involved for decades to come. It is clearly and demonstrably a long term plan with no reason to be concerned over the intentions - the intentions are gold standard. Therefore if someone wants to whinge about the level of engagement, overview of forums and anything associated with the club then they can sod off and do something else, be a customer somewhere else. I do get that too but am broadly stuck in the world of the club being mine, all of ours, hence being a greedy b'stard and wanting more.

BTW, I raised the customer bit to agitate those that should be agitated. I actually applauded that approach from PB, although it didn't go down well. Treating fans as customers is the way to go, to value them and not exploit their blood ties. Value them for their custom rather than exploiting their fanaticism. Plus, in the commercial world the customer is right, even when they are wrong. You have to be really bloody wrong to be called out for being wrong. We are definitely fans rather than customers.