2025, And England Is An Independent Country-Outside Of The European Union.

[The Spanish]

Due to the finance sector earning such massive tax revenues

That's understood. But in jocko land rather than blame globalisation and labour relations for the demise of heavy industry it's easier to point the finger at a region of your country you simply dislike culturally. I am saying nowhere that it's not massively important to the uk, including Edinburgh.

But you go to Aberdeen and see how relatively tinpot the engineering and technical side of offshore is compared to Norway and you see how poor the uk has been at diversification or entering new industries. And if it's their oil there's no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Far fewer multi-nationals basing themselves here. I can't see us leaving though. There is a never ending barrage of anti-eu news stories and opinions and yet most recent opinion polls still have staying in the EU in the lead. If there ever was a referendum there would be a very strong business led campaign to stay in. I'm all for reform though.

 

[vegster]

I was having this discussion earlier.

Assuming a 'Yes' vote north of the border, and the 2017 vote on EU membership sees a withdrawal, as well as further erosion of the United Kingdom....

What sort of political and social changes would this bring ? And would it be what we really want ?

Endless right-wing governance is a worry for me.

I think it is more likely we will be labouring under the oppresive yoke of Life President Putin

 

[maltaseagull]

Yesssss! Of course the politicians will slimeball their way out of giving us a referendum in the first place.......

Probably right as they cannot trust the electorate to make a rational decision Seriously, how many people vote on anything other than historical loyalty or what's in it for me?

Would anyone vote for a party that promised free university education, free school dinners, subsidised public transport, higher state pensions and higher taxes?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

2017 vote won't be happening because Labour will be in power.

It isn't all cut and dried if Labour become the next party in power. With a majority of less than 40 they wont have a majority after the Scottish Labour MPs have to resign if the sweaties vote for independence which will see Scotland leave the UK in March 2016.

 

[Gwylan]

It isn't all cut and dried if Labour become the next party in power. With a majority of less than 40 they wont have a majority after the Scottish Labour MPs have to resign if the sweaties vote for independence which will see Scotland leave the UK in March 2016.

Not at all. Only if there's a two-thirds majority against them: remember that the Coalition government passed an Act requiring governments to run full term.

Personally, I'm not convinced that Scotland will vote yes; I don't think the Tories will have an overall majority, even if they do. And I'm certainly not convinced people will vote to leave the EU - although it will be a lot closer if Scotland is not part of the electorate by then

 

[Soulman]

Yesssss! Of course the politicians will slimeball their way out of giving us a referendum in the first place.......

 

[Chicken Runner61]

By 2025 the Uk population will have divided into two groups the rich who can afford what they want and the rest a second class of people who will exist financially ranging from able to live reasonably to extremely poor and scraping a living.

The whole of Europe and most of the world will live this way as the developing nations will have caught up and across the globe and generally it won't make much difference what country you live in.

Most of the worlds resources will be owned by a rich 10% free to live and travel as they please with the 90% remainder living with work, leisure time, education and learning , food, energy and basic necessities rationed out according to your job status.

Just like now it won't matter who you vote for as all the politicians will have the same policies they only thing you will be voting for is who can control organised crime the best

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

I wouldnt be living here.

Would probably end up like Greece, but because we wouldnt be in the EU - wouldnt have Germany to bail us out. If a "leave Europe" vote happens, a mass exodus from the UK would probably happen for businesses and people alike.

 

[Stoo82]

I would say a shit labour government of the past. Blair really did **** everything up.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Would anyone vote for a party that promised free university education, free school dinners, subsidised public transport, higher state pensions and higher taxes?[/QUOTE]

That makes perfect sense to me. If that same party promised a minimum living wage and a tax threshold that started above it, they would get my vote.
Most benefits go to the working poor. It would actually save taxes. We are too dumb to see this.

 

[GreersElbow]

Would anyone vote for a party that promised free university education, free school dinners, subsidised public transport, higher state pensions and higher taxes?

That makes perfect sense to me. If that same party promised a minimum living wage and a tax threshold that started above it, they would get my vote.
Most benefits go to the working poor. It would actually save taxes. We are too dumb to see this.[/QUOTE]

Taxing people more would actually save us taxes? Logical, real logical. A structured and progressive tax system promotes tax revenue, not taxing every breathing person and every inanimate object.

What you'd probably want to do is bring the tax levels down, close down loopholes then enforce heavy fines/custodial sentencing for breaking these laws. If people kept more of their own money. Taxes hurt the poor more than they do the rich, because the rich can find ways to avoid it if the reward outweighs the risk which under its current scheme, is how it's in such a state.

More tax will mean avoiding tax becomes attractive, because the REWARD is greater than the RISK. Managing a national economy is all about balancing these trade offs in order to create a sustainable economy. Unfortunately, what this country has is a polarised voter base. Unfortunately a free market, low minimalist tax approach means that revenue is very low and services therefore outsourced/privatised to save money. Too high and the risk of tax avoidance goes through the roof. Talk of being 'firm' with groups won't work, because many of those companies taxed are SMEs which this country relies upon. Tackling them would cripple the economy.

Give the SMEs a fair deal and watch the economy boom.
Now, when you're increasing a 'living wage', will you constantly raise this every time food inflation increases? Or shall we actually pay attention to the real crisis in cost of living:
devaluation of currency causing inflation. http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/ - as the purchasing power of your pound has got incredibly weak over the past few decades. This was the exchange rate between USD/GBP in 2005 alone

Here it is in 2012

It's considerably weaker than what it was 7 years previous.

The massive banking crash didn't help, because central banks were very quick to devalue currencies through quantitative easing. The result was hurting the poor and still is.

Raising wages and taxes isn't the answer, but creating a fairer banking system or atleast returning monetary creation to the role of parliament and not giving it to reckless banks.

Back on track on the subject. I'd rather like England to begin devolving powers to regions. Of course this is not in the interests of the EU as it would drastically enable growth in a more localised area and it'd also be unconstitutional....one could wish of a semi-federal England...

 

[Javeaseagull]

Raising wages and taxes isn't the answer, but creating a fairer banking system or atleast returning monetary creation to the role of parliament and not giving it to reckless banks.

Back on track on the subject. I'd rather like England to begin devolving powers to regions. Of course this is not in the interests of the EU as it would drastically enable growth in a more localised area and it'd also be unconstitutional....one could wish of a semi-federal England...[/QUOTE]


Where did I say tax people more? I happen to believe that give pensioners another 40 pounds a week and they will spend it, not put it in a tax exempt haven somewhere. Actually, they might not, they may give it to their kids, same rules apply, it goes back into the economy.
I also said that the minimum wage should be raised to save taxes. We are subsidising employers under the present system. Why?
Your long winded and rambling post doesn’t answer any of my questions.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

If people are so Pro EU why don't you accept the Euro and get rid of the pound then?. Eventually this country is going to have to make a choice. Closer union or out. You can't have it both ways. If you get the wrong government in that choice will be gone, and the single currency will be slipped in through the back door like they do with everything else.

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

I'll be moving to France if we leave the EU (if they'd still have me).

might be OK for a holiday,but living here is another ball game

shit wages,record high unemployment and the far right on the march

I'd get them german phrase books out,if i were you

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Raising wages and taxes isn't the answer, but creating a fairer banking system or atleast returning monetary creation to the role of parliament and not giving it to reckless banks.

Back on track on the subject. I'd rather like England to begin devolving powers to regions. Of course this is not in the interests of the EU as it would drastically enable growth in a more localised area and it'd also be unconstitutional....one could wish of a semi-federal England...

Where did I say tax people more? I happen to believe that give pensioners another 40 pounds a week and they will spend it, not put it in a tax exempt haven somewhere. Actually, they might not, they may give it to their kids, same rules apply, it goes back into the economy.
I also said that the minimum wage should be raised to save taxes. We are subsidising employers under the present system. Why?
Your long winded and rambling post doesn’t answer any of my questions.[/QUOTE]

Why do we want to give this set of pensioners more money? They're in a incredibly lucky position re the current or recent pension arrangements. Many of them will spend longer in retirement than they did working.

If you're going to give money away, it should be to families and younger people. The ones that will be working until they are 70.

If you raise the min wage then there will be less employment meaning more taxes. It will also mean the economy is less productive, meaning less revenue. Lose Lose.

 

[Notters]

might be OK for a holiday,but living here is another ball game

shit wages,record high unemployment and the far right on the march

I'd get them german phrase books out,if i were you

Are you going to be leaving then? I hadn't realised how high unemployment was there, to be fair!

 

[Javeaseagull]

The old argument that a minimum wage means less jobs has been proved wrong. If people are allowed to keep more of their own money the economy will grow to the benefit of all not just the top 5%.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If Scotland votes for independence then I see that as a big destabilising factor for the rest of the UK voters, so why would they then vote to come out of the EU and heap further uncertainty onto what is left of the UK?

To answer my own question, the "Better Together" campaign has been so piss-poor that it's conceivable the "Better In The EU" campaign could be just as piss-poor. UKIP have shown it's easy to deride the EU but the facts are there is huge opportunity afforded by the EU and that membership has enhanced our economy, helped our position of influence with the US and the Commonwealth, not to mention it being a force for peace.

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

Are you going to be leaving then? I hadn't realised how high unemployment was there, to be fair!

I'd like to go back to Sussex,but the timing is all wrong,my lad is just coming up uni age and one things for sure,education is alot cheaper here

it's nothing to do with the french,they have been friendly & helpful,but my wife's french so it's not that difficult on that score

but yeah,i miss Sussex