2017 Manchester arena attack

[Triggaaar]

And therein lies the problem. They may condemn the terrorists methods, but at the end of the day they share their ultimate aims - UK law being replaced by Sharia Law (and all that that entails - apostasy becoming a crime......and homosexuality, of course. And certainly not allowing teenage girls to attend decadent pop concerts like the one bombed last night) and ultimately Britain (or whatever western country the scumbag murdering terrorists are attacking art the time) to become a Muslim country.

You think this is what all Muslims want. You're wrong GT. I don't know where you're getting your ideas from (the Mail?), but you're simply wrong. By the way, how many Muslim countries operate Sharia Law?

And remember, homosexuality was a crime here not long ago.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

A rant of little meaning.

If you ban Islam, you should ban Christianity - both invaders to these shores. Both have their histories of violence and tyranny in the name of their religion. Except in more enlightened times like ours, no-one accepts the tenet that these 'wars' today are anything to do with religion, irrespective of what they say. The Qu'ran explicitly forbids the slaying of children - so where does Islam come into this now?

Muhammad was a violent piece of shit, whoever the Jesus person(real or not)was a pacifist, their stories and messages are nothing alike.

 

[East Preston Gull]

A rant of little meaning.

If you ban Islam, you should ban Christianity - both invaders to these shores. Both have their histories of violence and tyranny in the name of their religion. Except in more enlightened times like ours, no-one accepts the tenet that these 'wars' today are anything to do with religion, irrespective of what they say. The Qu'ran explicitly forbids the slaying of children - so where does Islam come into this now?

What you mean is hate speech and a call to violence (which happens on all sides) has no place on these shores. In which case, I'd quite agree, but then that isn't the sole preserve of Islam.

Do you have any evidence that the community leaders have any part in these crimes? What you do have is evidence that the community leaders can't shout loud enough for some (including you, it seems) to condemn these atrocities. What do you want? A bigger megaphone? More tears? And many Muslims do stand in elections; one is the Mayor of London. And what happens? He gets accused of being part of the atrocities.

What you are doing in saying that is exactly what the terrorists want you do - sow discord and disunity. Is that how you wish to be portrayed - and having more in common with terrorists' aim than those of the community? Of course not, so don't say such things, and please don't insult 'community leaders' with the empty phrase 'so-called community leaders'. They are fighting hatred and anxiety just in trying to keep their communities united, peaceful and safe.

Britain is a far more secular country now, than merely being 'Christian'. It has a long history of Christianity of course - around 1,300 years (about the same age as Islam) - but that doesn't follow it has ONE religion; that's absurd. That said, I assume you know all your scriptures enough to be considered a good Christian...

I am not a Christian, have no care for Christianity and have never come across a Christian who thinks it's OK to slaughter young girls at a concert because the artist in question is seen as an immoral slut.

I am becoming fed up with Islam and the disgust it holds for others who do not follow it's doctrines.

I am scarred with a hatred of this religion, I admit due to my time working in Southall in 2005. We were threatened for smoking on the street in front of a mosque, abused whilst working through their praying time and the poor owner who was a Muslim was questioned by a so called elder as to why our kind were working in his home. We turned up on Day 2 to be told by some guy we never met that our services were no longer needed.

Great community, Great religion that infests our country.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[BevBHA]

Yes, you are so so right. We've been caught up in this stupid war for so long now, we bomb them in revenge for our dead children and they bomb us in revenge for their dead children and the same cycle keeps going on and on for ever and no-one can ever be sure who actually started it. And yet the response to something like this will be continued calls for revenge and heightened anger towards otherwise ordinary people which will create more dangerous fundamentalists as sure as night follows day, and the cycle continues and continues forever. And we'll feel good when we kill some of them and chuck loads in jail, and keep feeling bad when the inevitable lone-wolf gets through and kills some of us. And they feel just the same. But behind it all are are parents of every colour and creed in cities throughout this planet crying for their dead children.

And all the time our world gets further divided along the lines of THEM and US, labels which people didn't choose but just got foisted on them at birth.

God I'm so angry about this, angry that so many innocents died in Manchester for nothing, and angry at the inevitable, futile, misguided calls to fascism and war that follow. I understand, I understand. I just wish this passion could be used for something to actually stop this slide into civil war. There is an answer, pacifism, peace, understanding, absorbing the blows and working for a peace, but the calls for that get lost amidst the furore to punch them back and those that call for pacifism or reach out across the aisles get ridiculed and shunned. We are a species that wants to fight. The principle of an eye for an eye exists everywhere. And so the cycle will continue.

Sounds much like Corbyn's views to me. These people do not want peace and if he (and you) seriously think sitting down and finding a peace is the answer then that is as deluded as it comes. They will continue to kill non-believers. This does not make it to bomb them either; we need to target terrorist training camps and eradicate problems closer to home aswell

 

[The Large One]

What an ignorant reply. I was referring to our utterly useless politician who have failed to address the problem. Blatantly obvious we need a skilled worker entry process mirroring Australia

Do we? The one that lets even more people in than our current system?

Fair enough, I agree.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Good post. Something I often think about is how we can move more towards a secular society without preaching because I do not believe preaching religion or atheism for that matter is a good thing. I have found a huge amount of comfort from losing my catholic upbringing to become atheist and would love others to find that path but how can that be encouraged?

There has been a logical progression of secularisation across Europe and other parts of the world but I just cannot see how it would work amongst the Islamic faith, one or two will turn their back on the faith but for the vast majoirty that seems an impossible task.

I know where I would start though, no more religious schools. Surely schools should be for all sexes, all colours and all faiths. It cannot be healthy to only integrate with one line of thinking.

It's hard to turn your back on Islam when in many places it might cost you your life.

What other religion does apostasy carry such severe consequences?

 

[BevBHA]

Muhammad was a violent piece of shit, whoever the Jesus person(real or not)was a pacifist, their stories and messages are nothing alike.

Mohammad was also a peadofile. The Quaran instructs the killing of non-believers and the conquering of their countries

 

[Triggaaar]

Indeed. It was not a solely anti Islam post, it was an anti religion post if anything.

As for your second point, correct, there is massive hypocrisy in the very view of ´gods plan´as by that logic you could never punish anyone or send them to prison. Ludicrous.

Indeed, so accept that it's not generally what Christians or Muslims think. They believe god gave man free will (Adam ate an apple) and so humans are responsible for their actions, but god has a general plan etc. All shit of course, but there's no need to say that any kind words from a religious person are meaningless.

 

[KVLT]

I know where I would start though, no more religious schools. Surely schools should be for all sexes, all colours and all faiths. It cannot be healthy to only integrate with one line of thinking.

Absolutely this!

 

[BevBHA]

Do we? The one that lets even more people in than our current system?

Fair enough, I agree.

Yes. Glad you agree. The more the merrier if they are of benefit to our society. As widely reported, many Muslim taxi drivers worked through the night for free last night, many of the doctors/nurses involved are Muslim. Appreciate and welcome skilled workers . Eradicate the scum with extensive background checks

 

[The Large One]

I am not a Christian, have no care for Christianity and have never come across a Christian who thinks it's OK to slaughter young girls at a concert because the artist in question is seen as an immoral slut.

I am becoming fed up with Islam and the disgust it holds for others who do not follow it's doctrines.

I am scarred with a hatred of this religion, I admit due to my time working in Southall in 2005. We were threatened for smoking on the street in front of a mosque, abused whilst working through their praying time and the poor owner who was a Muslim was questioned by a so called elder as to why our kind were working in his home. We turned up on Day 2 to be told by some guy we never met that our services were no longer needed.

Great community, Great religion that infests our country.

So you've had one bad incident, and an entire 'doctrine' is to blame. But as has been said - and the consideration you're so happy to wilfully ignore - this has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with terrorists who wish to hijack Islam. Like I said, your disgust for ISIL is trumping your sadness and remorse for the victims, which says a lot. It's also exactly what they want of you. And you're falling for it - hook, line and sinker.

And if Britain is a Christian country, and you're not a Christian, where does that leave you?

And I hate to have to bring Godwin's Law into this, but I suspect you'll find there was a particular chap from a Catholic background who slaughtered innocent children in far greater numbers on the back of the being from a different country or religion.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, and the key words there are 'used to' - we stopped, we grew up, matured and recognised it was wrong, and became a better society (although certainly not perfect) for it.

Yes of course we've become a better society for it, and hopefully the parts of the world that are still barbaric and persecute people will one day be more civilised like ours.

But your hate filled posts suggest that it's impossible for Muslims to change over time as Christians have. Christianity doesn't seem better than Islam to me, it's just further ahead.

 

[GT49er]

While you're at it, can you provide first-hand, peer-tested proof that every Mosque, which have a perfect right to be here, are staging 'hateful rallies'? Thanks.

While you're at it, can you provide first-hand, peer-tested proof that any Mosque isn't staging 'hateful rallies'? Thanks.

No, of course you can't. Not taking sides here - just pointing out that this is a silly and pointless line of argument, whichever way it is used, or whichever side tries using it.

 

[BBassic]

I don't understand the idea of matching hatred with hatred. It'd like a fire crew rucking up to a bin fire with a flamethrower. It just results in another fire crew turning up with a bigger flame thrower over and over again until the entire world is burning.

 

[looney]

Remove Kebab.

 

[Triggaaar]

Islamic teachings and laws should be purged from these shores. This religion has no place here.

You're as backward as those you despise.

 

[GT49er]

Yes of course we've become a better society for it, and hopefully the parts of the world that are still barbaric and persecute people will one day be more civilised like ours.

But your hate filled posts suggest that it's impossible for Muslims to change over time as Christians have. Christianity doesn't seem better than Islam to me, it's just further ahead.

My hate filled post? Geez - read it again, and then try and work out what you're talking about.

 

[Yoda]

I see it didn't take long for this thread to degenerate to the norm.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So you've had one bad incident, and an entire 'doctrine' is to blame. But as has been said - and the consideration you're so happy to wilfully ignore - this has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with terrorists who wish to hijack Islam. Like I said, your disgust for ISIL is trumping your sadness and remorse for the victims, which says a lot. It's also exactly what they want of you. And you're falling for it - hook, line and sinker.

Indeed. I mentioned this a few pages back. The likes of this poster, along with their media and political brethren like Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson, are being played like a cheap violin. Astonishing that they continue to react EXACTLY how their enemies want them to.

And I hate to have to bring Godwin's Law into this, but I suspect you'll find there was a particular chap from a Catholic background who slaughtered innocent children in far greater numbers on the back of the being from a different country or religion.

I don't think you needed to make the explicit comparison. I think the suggestion that 'all mosques should be bulldozed' pretty much illustrated that particular point.

 

[The Large One]

While you're at it, can you provide first-hand, peer-tested proof that any Mosque isn't staging 'hateful rallies'? Thanks.

No, of course you can't. Not taking sides here - just pointing out that this is a silly and pointless line of argument, whichever way it is used, or whichever side tries using it.

No, I can't. But then, I'm not making that claim.