2017 Manchester arena attack

[JC Footy Genius]

Yes, you are so so right. We've been caught up in this stupid war for so long now, we bomb them in revenge for our dead children and they bomb us in revenge for their dead children and the same cycle keeps going on and on for ever and no-one can ever be sure who actually started it. And yet the response to something like this will be continued calls for revenge and heightened anger towards otherwise ordinary people which will create more dangerous fundamentalists as sure as night follows day, and the cycle continues and continues forever. And we'll feel good when we kill some of them and chuck loads in jail, and keep feeling bad when the inevitable lone-wolf gets through and kills some of us. And they feel just the same. But behind it all are are parents of every colour and creed in cities throughout this planet crying for their dead children.

And all the time our world gets further divided along the lines of THEM and US, labels which people didn't choose but just got foisted on them at birth.

God I'm so angry about this, angry that so many innocents died in Manchester for nothing, and angry at the inevitable, futile, misguided calls to fascism and war that follow. I understand, I understand. I just wish this passion could be used for something to actually stop this slide into civil war. There is an answer, pacifism, peace, understanding, absorbing the blows and working for a peace, but the calls for that get lost amidst the furore to punch them back and those that call for pacifism or reach out across the aisles get ridiculed and shunned. We are a species that wants to fight. The principle of an eye for an eye exists everywhere. And so the cycle will continue.

Fine sentiments and I agree with much of what you say but I don't think we can rely on 'pacifism, peace, understanding, absorbing the blows and working for a peace' when it comes to Radical Islamists (assuming this is another Islamist outrage). It's there way or the highway there is no middle ground.

Liberal western democratic values are worth fighting for in my view unfortunately we have been far to complacent and mealy mouthed defending them . Fight clever, avoid playing into the terrorists agenda, encourage reform and debate within Islam yes but we should not tolerate or give an inch to medieval religious intolerance.

 

[heathgate]

You're so right, if such propoganda and opinions were promoted at a hired venue, live, or in a leaflet or magazine form then these facilities would be shut down. Google etc are making huge sums of money and should now start taking more responsibility, the politicians are letting them off the hook as this is coming from a medium that they don't fully understand.

There we have it.....the liberal voice of the west, don't listen in to my calls, email or social media, don't infringe my civil liberties......... but...... somehow these platforms are to blame and should be tackled...... what exactly should the security services be allowed to do then?



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[Papa Lazarou]

And just the sort of show where there would have been hundreds of parents waiting in the foyer to collect their kids who'd been given their first taste of independence. Many would have had bags and no searching at this stage of the event (think
Of the Amex after the match has ended.) how on earth can you security check at this stage? Dreadful calculating act. RIP.

On the subject of the Amex, the gatherings post game in the Lower West and North would appear to be a vulnerable place / time.

 

[marlowe]

Apparently there are many people gloating and celebrating this attack on Twitter.
Surely it is time to either close this outlet for pond life and people with nothing else better to do down or severely moderate it.
It has some use I suppose but the bad massively outweighs the good.
I see there were people filming other people panicking to get away on their phones all ready to download.
I find the whole Facebook / Twitter thing bizzare.
After a couple of months you won't miss it.

I'm not a fan or user of Twitter or Facebook myself and am well aware of its negative aspects and potential for malevolence but in the case of Olivia Campbell's mother she is using it as a support network to help find her daughter and a lot of people who she doesn't even know are helping in her search as a result of her posts. In situations like that I suppose its invaluable and hopefully it will yield a positive result

 

[spence]

Not saying this is the case, but sometimes they will use a timer as groups have used unwilling people and or people that may pull out at the last minute. Probably not the case here though.

Most suicide bombers detonate there device by themselves. A lot of high profile terrorists wear belts in case they are close to capture.

 

[Brighton Mod]

There we have it.....the liberal voice of the west, don't listen in to my calls, email or social media, don't infringe my civil liberties......... but...... somehow these platforms are to blame and should be tackled...... what exactly should the security services be allowed to do then?



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If I was to stop you on the street and shout my opinion in your face, you turned and I was there again shouting my message and you walked off down the street I was there again then it would be a reasonable expectation for me to be removed. Its a judgement call and beyond my pay grade but this practice on social media should not be allowed to continue. As for a member of the liberal west, I think you've made a wrong call there.

 

[SK1NT]

This news breaks my heart. Targeting the innocence of youth is as bad as it gets.

We all want to channel our anger somewhere however we have to remember that these awful, disgusting terror attacks are simply being done by a handful of nutters. You absolutely cannot lump these people with 99.99% of law abiding Muslims. Most Muslims are our doctors, neighbors, work colleagues, friends.

Let's not spread the hate because this is why these cvnts are doing these attacks. Labeling the attacker as a Muslim is simply wrong. He is just a sick piece of sh1t. Rot in hell you scum.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Fine sentiments and I agree with much of what you say but I don't think we can rely on 'pacifism, peace, understanding, absorbing the blows and working for a peace' when it comes to Radical Islamists (assuming this is another Islamist outrage). It's there way or the highway there is no middle ground.

Liberal western democratic values are worth fighting for in my view unfortunately we have been far to complacent and mealy mouthed defending them . Fight clever, avoid playing into the terrorists agenda, encourage reform and debate within Islam yes but we should not tolerate or give an inch to medieval religious intolerance.

You see any fight in the street, it will continue as long as both sides are punching. When one side stops, the other will only throw a couple more before they stop too. Put it this way, it ain't stopping if we keep fighting.

Yes Liberal western democratic values are worth fighting for, but I don't beleive we will lose them if we stop bombing Syria. And I agree we shouldn't give an inch to medieval religious intolerance, it was one of the thrusts of my main point. Too many people still fighting the crusades, on both sides

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Truly shocking scenes,little kids slaughtered by backward savages.
What is our prime ministers priority?
Bring back fox hunting.
Unbelievable.

I don't often get angry reading posts on NSC. Today I am making an exception. You are a complete and utter prick. Trying to politicize mindless slaughter of innocent people.

 

[Wilko]

View attachment 85678

I understand their reasoning for this and they have been quick to get these words out but there are parts of this that show exactly some of the issue-

´Prayers are with the victims´ - prayers to who exactly. the god that planned this, the god that let this happen, the god that did not intervene? Muslims believe that everything is part of gods plan so how can they condemn an attack that was allowed by their creator?

´Justice both in this life and next´. What justice in this life? the guy is dead. Justice in what after life? There is zero evidence of any afterlife whatsoever.

Surely the only way to progress is to leave religion behind altogether, the longer people continue to believe in a plan, an afterlife and that prayers will bring any kind of comfort to the families of the deceased then we cannot develop as a species.

Sorry for the rant people, these are my thoughts an a very emotional time.

 

[Mackenzie]

I understand their reasoning for this and they have been quick to get these words out but there are parts of this that show exactly some of the issue-

´Prayers are with the victims´ - prayers to who exactly. the god that planned this, the god that let this happen, the god that did not intervene? Muslims believe that everything is part of gods plan so how can they condemn an attack that was allowed by their creator?

´Justice both in this life and next´. What justice in this life? the guy is dead. Justice in what after life? There is zero evidence of any afterlife whatsoever.

Surely the only way to progress is to leave religion behind altogether, the longer people continue to believe in a plan, an afterlife and that prayers will bring any kind of comfort to the families of the deceased then we cannot develop as a species.

Sorry for the rant people, these are my thoughts an a very emotional time.

That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. You live, then you die, and that's it.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I don't think they do want us cowed and hiding, they want us out beating up innocent Muslims & setting fire to mosques; they want to incite us, both individually and societally, to oppression and violence towards muslims, thus driving more muslims towards radicalism. They are trying to start a holy war, a jihad.
And, as can be seen on here, some people are already keen to point the finger and demand action.
But the way we deal with them (because we cannot really defeat them) is to carry on as a normal, multi-cultural society; accept the Muslim council's condemnation for what it is, not ridicule it for hypocrisy.

Spot on.

The predictable reactions from the likes of Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson, which serve nothing but to whip up resentment and fear, are 100% what the perpetrators of this shit want. Being played like fools.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You see any fight in the street, it will continue as long as both sides are punching. When one side stops, the other will only throw a couple more before they stop too. Put it this way, it ain't stopping if we keep fighting.

Yes Liberal western democratic values are worth fighting for, but I don't beleive we will lose them if we stop bombing Syria. And I agree we shouldn't give an inch to medieval religious intolerance, it was one of the thrusts of my main point. Too many people still fighting the crusades, on both sides

We're talking Islamic fundamentalism not joe bloggs on the street. Stop fighting they'll throw a couple more punches then chop our heads off, I wouldn't call that a good outcome.

No we wouldn't but the terrorism/violence wouldn't stop either. Opposition and non-intervention in the Iraq war didn't protect Germany or France or Belgium or numerous other countries from terrorist attacks. All it took was a cartoon and Denmark saw it's embassies going up in smoke. Yes foreign policy has an effect but non interference isn't going to make this go away.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

How do you deal with people who don't value life, even their own? Pure evil.

 

[marlowe]

Rather odd speech by Trump in response I thought...."I won't call them monsters because they would like that term, they would think that's a great name.....". I think he should think about sacking his speech writer.

 

[whitelion]

Rather odd speech by Trump in response I thought...."I won't call them monsters because they would like that term, they would think that's a great name.....". I think he should think about sacking his speech writer.

Could he not be the author?

 

[Mackenzie]

How do you deal with people who don't value life, even their own? Pure evil.

You can't. The best outcome is catching them before they're able to kill, even then it seems prisons are unable to prevent radicalisation within their walls.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I understand their reasoning for this and they have been quick to get these words out but there are parts of this that show exactly some of the issue-

´Prayers are with the victims´ - prayers to who exactly. the god that planned this, the god that let this happen, the god that did not intervene? Muslims believe that everything is part of gods plan so how can they condemn an attack that was allowed by their creator?

´Justice both in this life and next´. What justice in this life? the guy is dead. Justice in what after life? There is zero evidence of any afterlife whatsoever.

Surely the only way to progress is to leave religion behind altogether, the longer people continue to believe in a plan, an afterlife and that prayers will bring any kind of comfort to the families of the deceased then we cannot develop as a species.

Sorry for the rant people, these are my thoughts an a very emotional time.

That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. You live, then you die, and that's it.

I'm an atheist and I see nothing wrong with the statement... they are expressing their outrage in term of their world (and beyond) view. It's hardly surprising if they use such language.

 

[drew]

I understand their reasoning for this and they have been quick to get these words out but there are parts of this that show exactly some of the issue-

´Prayers are with the victims´ - prayers to who exactly. the god that planned this, the god that let this happen, the god that did not intervene? Muslims believe that everything is part of gods plan so how can they condemn an attack that was allowed by their creator?

´Justice both in this life and next´. What justice in this life? the guy is dead. Justice in what after life? There is zero evidence of any afterlife whatsoever.
Surely the only way to progress is to leave religion behind altogether, the longer people continue to believe in a plan, an afterlife and that prayers will bring any kind of comfort to the families of the deceased then we cannot develop as a species.

Sorry for the rant people, these are my thoughts an a very emotional time.

Nothing wrong with them issuing a statement and nothing wrong with wording. They are religious so why can't they pray for the victims. Christians would say the same. The vast majority of religions and those that follow them do so without resorting to violence. It is a very small percentage.

 

[Wilko]

I'm an atheist and I see nothing wrong with the statement... they are expressing their outrage in term of their world (and beyond) view. It's hardly surprising if they use such language.

The sentiment behind the statement is indeed good. My point is, how can you believe in gods plan/fate and then condemn the attack? Logically that makes no sense whatsoever.