[Politics] 1st/2nd choice Referendum Poll

[Deleted member 22389]

Genuinely hope we leave and without a deal, as we'll be in a much stronger negotiating position to get better deals with other markets as well as the EU post Brexit, especially when the cost of a new BMW jumps 5% and people start buying Toyota's instead. The closer we get to leaving with no deal the weaker the EU's position will become and so I suspect they will offer some kind of concession at the eleventh hour and a new deal will probably be passed through Parliament. However, if this doesn't happen and we just leave without a deal it may not be as bad as people think, and in 3-4 years the general consensus may well be that leaving with no deal turned out to be our best outcome.

 

[drew]

What? They can't punish us. If we withdraw Article 50, that's it.

Not that we should, obviously. To reverse the decision without a referendum would be outrageous.

What they can do is to revoke Article 50 to allow more time to sort out how we are going to leave seeing as the politicians can't decide at the moment.

 

[drew]

Then you wold presumably view democracy as "a terrible idea". Because let's face it, it is democracy that you would be undermining if we had a second referendum because you didn't like the result of the first!

I'm a left-wing leaver (from the Tony Benn school) and past couple of weeks I have been giving some thought of how I would have reacted if the result of the referendum had been to remain. I wasn't expecting Leave to win and was surprised when that was the result. However, had the vote gone against me I wouldn't have accused the remain voters that they "didn't understand what they were voting for". I wouldn't have been out on the streets demanding another referendum because I didn't win the first one. I would have accepted the result and moved on.

That's what the democratic process is all about. The majority wins the day.

But the pin up poster boy of leave agrees.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

 

[French Seagull]

Interesting, but I don't think that she will go for a referendum
(Very happy to eat my words)

 

[French Seagull]

But what will it do if just a few more big employing companies leave, imagine if American express went, a few more airline companies moved their work to the EU, a couple of car manufacturers.
I still maintain that people had no idea what they were voting for, I could accept it better now if there was a referendum and it was clear what people were voting for, no one ever discussed the actual divorce bill in numbers, because it was unknown for instance and it was just scare mongers

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

when Labour win the next general election,can we have a 2nd vote

 

[melias shoes]

when Labour win the next general election,can we have a 2nd vote

Well said Sir.

 

[clapham_gull]

when Labour win the next general election,can we have a 2nd vote

Yes, you can vote them out in the next election and weaken them in by-elections.

A referendum to leave the EU and a general election are completely different things on many many levels.

Only an idiot would attempt to draw an analogy.

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[GT49er]

when Labour win the next general election,can we have a 2nd vote

To get the Tories back in again, because people didn't know what they were voting for when they voted Labour? Okey-doke.




Actually, voting Labour at the moment, people really won't know what they're voting for!

 

[clapham_gull]

But what will it do if just a few more big employing companies leave, imagine if American express went, a few more airline companies moved their work to the EU, a couple of car manufacturers.
I still maintain that people had no idea what they were voting for, I could accept it better now if there was a referendum and it was clear what people were voting for, no one ever discussed the actual divorce bill in numbers, because it was unknown for instance and it was just scare mongers

Everyone knew what there were voting for - status quo or change.

Those on the change side left that to the politicians who can't agree what the change should be.

That effectively why I voted remain completely dispassionately.

Leavers are paradoxical. Hate the status quo but hand the job of working out what that means back to the political class.

Now blaming everyone except themselves that it isn't quite going quite how they never had a plan for.



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[Deleted member 2719]

Yes, you can vote them out in the next election and weaken them in by-elections.

A referendum to leave the EU and a general election are completely different things on many many levels.

Only an idiot would attempt to draw an analogy.

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Typical remainer comment, thinking that they are superior in some way.

You lot have only stoked the fire and its well and truly burning.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Typical remainer comment, thinking that they are superior in some way.

You lot have only stoked the fire and its well and truly burning.

 

[erkan]

Genuinely hope we leave and without a deal, as we'll be in a much stronger negotiating position to get better deals with other markets as well as the EU post Brexit, especially when the cost of a new BMW jumps 5% and people start buying Toyota's instead. The closer we get to leaving with no deal the weaker the EU's position will become and so I suspect they will offer some kind of concession at the eleventh hour and a new deal will probably be passed through Parliament. However, if this doesn't happen and we just leave without a deal it may not be as bad as people think, and in 3-4 years the general consensus may well be that leaving with no deal turned out to be our best outcome.

That is all very reassuring. Can you tell the Chancellor of the Exchequer the good news?

 

[clapham_gull]

Typical remainer comment, thinking that they are superior in some way.

You lot have only stoked the fire and its well and truly burning.

I'm quite a nuanced/reluctant remainer if you could be bothered to read my posts, but it is idiotic to:

1) Keep saying leave means leave without being about to define what leave means.
2) Draw analogies with general elections, they aren't once in a lifetime votes.
3) Cut and paste something from somewhere else because you haven't got the intelligence to build your own argument. Be intelligent about it, not just one of the mob.

Where I stand now, my 1st choice would be for a soft brexit of sorts. The damage has already been done and not sure the trust between the UK and the EU can ever be re-built with us inside.

Leaving with no deal is f##### idiotic for a number of industries and those who proposing it have an agenda. They want to completely break the UK because they want to turn into a low regulation tax haven. They couldn't a stuff who descends into poverty in the ten years it will take.

That's not project fear, in fact it has little to do with "brexit", The EU is just one of things they need to get out of the way to make it happen.

They will have control over immigration, (not you or me) and the economy will rely on it to provide all the low paid jobs they want to create.

Fortunately, it's probably not gonna happen because the majority of MPs aren't that stupid.

 

[pastafarian]

when Labour win the next general election,can we have a 2nd vote

Yes of course, remainers have now laid down the new rules.
If Labour win the next election it would be only fair that the people should vote again before Corbyn forming a government can be implemented.
In fact I strongly suggest that election is done again and again until the people change their minds, vote correctly and stop Corbyn becoming PM.
We could rename the do it again election The Peoples Election to give it validity.

 

[Motogull]

I am uncomfortable with another vote conceptually. That said, there is significant opinion that 'no deal' is mental and then there is criticism across the political divide of Mrs May's proposed deal with a consistent view that the UK would be worse off. I therefore default to the remain option despite feeling uncomfortable that it goes against the vote result.

What a fukk up.

 

[clapham_gull]

I am uncomfortable with another vote conceptually. That said, there is significant opinion that 'no deal' is mental and then there is criticism across the political divide of Mrs May's proposed deal with a consistent view that the UK would be worse off. I therefore default to the remain option despite feeling uncomfortable that it goes against the vote result.

What a fukk up.

Exactly. I'm very uncomfortable with it, since it's short history has been everything about those who lost simply wanting another go.

As the situation has evolved (which those wanting another go DID not predict) it may be the only way out.

What a fukk up.

The only good thing that has come out of this (and I'm struggling) is the acknowledgement from the political classes that the systems aren't fit for purpose and there is huge inequality in society.

Something is very very f##### if the referendum has created an alliance between Rees Mogg and the working class.

 

[The Clamp]

We can unilaterally reverse article 50 and we can stop Brexit in it’s tracks. Our government would be remiss if they didn’t do this. They would be doing a huge disservice to the British people by not serving in our best interests, the job they are voted in to do.
Systems are in place to get us out of this mess and our government’s duty is to reverse Brexit.
The voters were given a shot, we failed. The government were given a shot , they failed. They have one last chance to redeem themselves. Stop Brexit, serve your country in the manner required of you.
Theresa May, leave the country in a better state than you found it. Reverse Brexit and bow out of office. Whatever people think of you now, do this one last act and when history comes to be written, you will be hailed the saviour of Britain.
Let the Brexiteers shed their tears, you will be saving their children’s future.

 

[Baldseagull]

Perhaps that date should be some time after the action from the result has been acted upon.

I presume you're just joking? Obviously all democratic votes are choices made at the time of asking and you don't run a democracy by ignoring all votes on the basis that they're out of date.

Perhaps, or perhaps when there is popular support for something different.

We had a referendum on Europe 40 odd years ago, the date for another one was not set, it occured when there was seemingly an appetite for it. There seems to me to be an appetite for a referendum on the issue again now.
To ask people if they have changed their mind, if there is a good suspicion they may have, and before the choice they may wish to make vanishes, seems more democratic than waiting till that option is removed.

It's no joke that there will be numbers of people that tipped the balance in favour of leave, who will not see it happen, and a greater number, who could not vote then, that will have to live with the decision they were not allowed to make.

 

[Baldseagull]

Genuinely hope we leave and without a deal, as we'll be in a much stronger negotiating position to get better deals with other markets as well as the EU post Brexit, especially when the cost of a new BMW jumps 5% and people start buying Toyota's instead. The closer we get to leaving with no deal the weaker the EU's position will become and so I suspect they will offer some kind of concession at the eleventh hour and a new deal will probably be passed through Parliament. However, if this doesn't happen and we just leave without a deal it may not be as bad as people think, and in 3-4 years the general consensus may well be that leaving with no deal turned out to be our best outcome.

Do people buy BMW's because they are cheaper than Toyota's? Toyota make Auris in the uk, if you want any other model, it's an import.