[Politics] 1st/2nd choice Referendum Poll

[Rugrat]

I keep hearing those who voted to leave the EU say that they knew exactly what they voted for, as if to suggest there is a single, homogenous position amongst leavers. Judging by the chaotic scenes in parliament and the differing views on this post, this would seem to be bollocks (?).

Don't be daft, Farage and Boris laid it out very clearly. We would all be so much better off, the NHS would be awash with money, plenty of low paid work for our own people who were being unfairly discriminated against, we would become a trading powerhouse and the British Empire would be put back together.

We would take control of our own destiny ... that'll be fun then!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Could you run that question by me, just one more time please.

If there were simply 3 options, that would be unfair on the leave voters as it is possible (and from this poll so far, it appears probable) that 50% of leave voters in the original vote thought they were voting for one thing and 50% thought were voting for something completely different.

The simplest way to ensure that each person gets their views democratically represented is either to have two votes or one vote with a second choice option. In the above, as it currently stands 17.8% of voters believe that we should go 'no deal' and 16.3% of voters believe we should go the TM deal.

Since the leave voters cannot come to agreement on what they want, the lesser option (TM deal) is then removed and those voters get to choose their second option. Although, if a couple more leave voters vote the other way, then 'no deal' would be removed. Certainly, on NSC, the leave voters appear to be split right down the middle.

 

[virtual22]

Don't be daft, Farage and Boris laid it out very clearly. We would all be so much better off, the NHS would be awash with money, plenty of low paid work for our own people who were being unfairly discriminated against, we would become a trading powerhouse and the British Empire would be put back together.

We would take control of our own destiny ... that'll be fun then!

We hear this a lot, but we also were told that there would be an emergency budget, that the day after the vote there would be financial armageddon, that article 50 would be delivered the day after, that there would be wars and all sorts of other biblical disastrous events. Lets not kid ourselves that there wasn't a vast amount of bullshit from both sides in the run up to that vote, pretty much like every general election in this country as well.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

For me it needs to be a European model strung out over two weekends. First Week Remain/TM/WTO. Second week (if necessary) the first two go it alone assuming 1 of the options had not reached say a threshold of 55% (which I think is what we could all finally call a proper win).

This would be the best approach for me as it would allow all options to be tested.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This would be the best approach for me as it would allow all options to be tested.

I think that the second choice option used in this poll achieves the exact same but at half the price

 

[Trelford Mills Guide Dog]

Don't be daft, Farage and Boris laid it out very clearly. We would all be so much better off, the NHS would be awash with money, plenty of low paid work for our own people who were being unfairly discriminated against, we would become a trading powerhouse and the British Empire would be put back together.

We would take control of our own destiny ... that'll be fun then!

Oddly, that scenario seems to be missing from the poll

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oddly, that scenario seems to be missing from the poll

I think it went missing on 24th June 2016 and hasn't been seen since

 

[sully]

We hear this a lot, but we also were told that there would be an emergency budget, that the day after the vote there would be financial armageddon, that article 50 would be delivered the day after, that there would be wars and all sorts of other biblical disastrous events. Lets not kid ourselves that there wasn't a vast amount of bullshit from both sides in the run up to that vote, pretty much like every general election in this country as well.

This is precisely why a second referendum is sensible. All the nonsense spouted by both sides has now been debunked, so let’s find out if we still want to leave now that we have a better understanding of what it looks like.

 

[clapham_gull]

I thinking of doing a masters in conflict resolution. Will be very handy post Breversal.


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[Kalimantan Gull]

We hear this a lot, but we also were told that there would be an emergency budget, that the day after the vote there would be financial armageddon, that article 50 would be delivered the day after, that there would be wars and all sorts of other biblical disastrous events. Lets not kid ourselves that there wasn't a vast amount of bullshit from both sides in the run up to that vote, pretty much like every general election in this country as well.

That's because the Tories ran both sides of the referendum campaign, and the last time the Tories ran an honest election campaign was , um, no, sorry I can't remember..

 

[rippleman]

Remain. No second choice from me I'm afraid. Brexit was a terrible idea two years ago and it's still a terrible idea now.

IMO, of course.

Then you wold presumably view democracy as "a terrible idea". Because let's face it, it is democracy that you would be undermining if we had a second referendum because you didn't like the result of the first!

I'm a left-wing leaver (from the Tony Benn school) and past couple of weeks I have been giving some thought of how I would have reacted if the result of the referendum had been to remain. I wasn't expecting Leave to win and was surprised when that was the result. However, had the vote gone against me I wouldn't have accused the remain voters that they "didn't understand what they were voting for". I wouldn't have been out on the streets demanding another referendum because I didn't win the first one. I would have accepted the result and moved on.

That's what the democratic process is all about. The majority wins the day.

 

[BadFish]

That's because the Tories ran both sides of the referendum campaign, and the last time the Tories ran an honest election campaign was , um, no, sorry I can't remember..

Why change a winning strategy. The electorate lap it up.

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[Kalimantan Gull]

Why change a winning strategy. The electorate lap it up.

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It was Project Extreme Unicorns v Project Extreme Fear, by one wing of the Tories against the other

As electoral playbooks go it was a marvellous exercise in coercing the masses into extreme division


... on a more serious note, is this going to become a complete re-alignment in British politics; is leave v remain - going it alone v close ties with Europe - going to become the new red v blue in our politics? On a par with the Thatcherite revolution, and before that, the rise of the Labour party?

 

[clapham_gull]

Then you wold presumably view democracy as "a terrible idea". Because let's face it, it is democracy that you would be undermining if we had a second referendum because you didn't like the result of the first!

I'm a left-wing leaver (from the Tony Benn school) and past couple of weeks I have been giving some thought of how I would have reacted if the result of the referendum had been to remain. I wasn't expecting Leave to win and was surprised when that was the result. However, had the vote gone against me I wouldn't have accused the remain voters that they "didn't understand what they were voting for". I wouldn't have been out on the streets demanding another referendum because I didn't win the first one. I would have accepted the result and moved on.

That's what the democratic process is all about. The majority wins the day.

That is as well be with you but in such a situation the hard core brexiteers on the right would never back down.

Their aim is completely different from yours - A low regulation, small state UK tax haven.

The result would still have been close and that would have been enough of a mandate for them to carry on... and on and on.

Remember, they have been fighting this battle for a very long time. A small issue of slightly losing a referendum wouldn't stop them.

The thing about leave is that it is incredibly difficult to reverse the decision.

With remain it's much easier.

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[BadFish]

It was Project Extreme Unicorns v Project Extreme Fear, by one wing of the Tories against the other

As electoral playbooks go it was a marvellous exercise in coercing the masses into extreme division


... on a more serious note, is this going to become a complete re-alignment in British politics; is leave v remain - going it alone v close ties with Europe - going to become the new red v blue in our politics? On a par with the Thatcherite revolution, and before that, the rise of the Labour party?

EU or no EU, nothing is going to improve for the UK while the electorate continues to vote in governments that do not value their intrests. IMHO Brexit was another red herring.

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[Ding Dong !]

Eh....

I want out of Europe, I want the May Out and I don't give a feck about a deal....

I also don't want Corbyn sneaking in the back door...

This.....god help us if Corbyn and his side kick Abbott get in. ( Laurel & Hardy spring to mind )

 

[Insel affe]

If there were simply 3 options, that would be unfair on the leave voters as it is possible (and from this poll so far, it appears probable) that 50% of leave voters in the original vote thought they were voting for one thing and 50% thought were voting for something completely different.

The simplest way to ensure that each person gets their views democratically represented is either to have two votes or one vote with a second choice option. In the above, as it currently stands 17.8% of voters believe that we should go 'no deal' and 16.3% of voters believe we should go the TM deal.

Since the leave voters cannot come to agreement on what they want, the lesser option (TM deal) is then removed and those voters get to choose their second option. Although, if a couple more leave voters vote the other way, then 'no deal' would be removed. Certainly, on NSC, the leave voters appear to be split right down the middle.

So if i voted leave and don't want the deal on the table and don't want a second option how do i vote ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

So if i voted leave and don't want the deal on the table and don't want a second option how do i vote ?

Afraid you have to choose a second option. I wondered how long it would take for someone to spot the obvious flaw in [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION]s plan

*edit* Suppose we could have a second option of none, but I can't be arsed to do another poll

 

[Marshy]

I don't understand the poll let alone Brexit

 

[Triggaaar]

So if i voted leave and don't want the deal on the table and don't want a second option how do i vote ?

If these were the options the governement put to the public, that's the question you need to ask yourself. Presumably you'd choose no deal, and your second choice would be whatever you think the lest worst option is.