[Football] 1979 Cup Final on ITV +1

[lawros left foot]

Watching the clips form the World Cup games shown at lunchtime on BBC and then catching the 1979 domestic Cup final reminded me of the huge gulf in class between the two. On the evidence of this, English club football was still in the Dark Ages. Thankfully the gap has closed now.

And yet, English football clubs won every European Cup from 1977 to 1982, six years totally dominating the senior cup competition on the continent.
Oh for a dark age like that now.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

And yet, English football clubs won every European Cup from 1977 to 1982, six years totally dominating the senior cup competition on the continent.
Oh for a dark age like that now.

Indeed

Everton would have gone close too, if it wasn't for the ban

 

[lawros left foot]

Indeed

Everton would have gone close too, if it wasn't for the ban

That Everton side were a joy to watch, a very underrated team imo, they deserve more kudos than afforded them now.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

That Everton side were a joy to watch, a very underrated team imo, they deserve more kudos than afforded them now.

agree,they cakewalked the 84-85 season

real shame about the ban,I think they had just won the CWC?
surely would of had more success after that

bloody shame about those mersey cup finals too
I'm no Everton fan,but Howard Kendall had built a great team there

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

England v Cameroon 1990 tomorrow on BBC1 at 2.30. If the weather is shithouse I'll be all over that.

I watched the full 90 of England v Argentina 2002 last weekend and really enjoyed it. These revisits are excellent.

Is it a different day ? Seems to be rugby on at that time.

 

[wealdgull]

Is it a different day ? Seems to be rugby on at that time.

Seems to be only on the BBC sport website.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Seems to be only on the BBC sport website.

Just found it on BBC iplayer as well.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

And yet, English football clubs won every European Cup from 1977 to 1982, six years totally dominating the senior cup competition on the continent.
Oh for a dark age like that now.

You are totally right; I can't argue with the facts. So it got me thinking - how could I reconcile the poor quality on display in 1979 (relative to the World Cup highlights) with these facts?

At first I thought it could just be the Liverpool factor i.e a freakishly good English club side winning so much silverware. And indeed they did in 77, 78. and 81. But that still left Forrest (79 and 80) and Villa (82).

But given that Man U and Arsenal were 'good teams' why did the match look like dross?. So maybe a Cup Final - end of season, tired players, adrenaline pumping - didn't showcase our football very well.

And then again I was looking at World Cup clips which were very heavily edited highlights: the best of the best, across an era dating from 1974.

So I was comparing apples with oranges to some extent. Plus many of the international teams then seemed to have great players distributed across many club sides. Again, the national teams could well have been the best of the best.

But there was a kind of awfulness about the play in that Final: lump it up to Joe Jordan, get a knock-down and give the ball back to the opposition. Repeat many times. Intuitively we kind of knew that our football was falling behind - tactically (4-4-2), technically (skill sets) and possibly fitness wise (our teams could win domestically while nursing hangovers?). But maybe calling it the Dark Ages was a bit unfair.

Anyway - you've made me think, so thanks for that.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

You are totally right; I can't argue with the facts. So it got me thinking - how could I reconcile the poor quality on display in 1979 (relative to the World Cup highlights) with these facts?

At first I thought it could just be the Liverpool factor i.e a freakishly good English club side winning so much silverware. And indeed they did in 77, 78. and 81. But that still left Forrest (79 and 80) and Villa (82).

But given that Man U and Arsenal were 'good teams' why did the match look like dross?. So maybe a Cup Final - end of season, tired players, adrenaline pumping - didn't showcase our football very well.

And then again I was looking at World Cup clips which were very heavily edited highlights: the best of the best, across an era dating from 1974.

So I was comparing apples with oranges to some extent. Plus many of the international teams then seemed to have great players distributed across many club sides. Again, the national teams could well have been the best of the best.

But there was a kind of awfulness about the play in that Final: lump it up to Joe Jordan, get a knock-down and give the ball back to the opposition. Repeat many times. Intuitively we kind of knew that our football was falling behind - tactically (4-4-2), technically (skill sets) and possibly fitness wise (our teams could win domestically while nursing hangovers?). But maybe calling it the Dark Ages was a bit unfair.

Anyway - you've made me think, so thanks for that.

you have to remember that both Arsenal (7th) & Man Utd (9th) were a long way behind the likes of Forest & Liverpool at that time

with due respect to Steaua Bucherest,Porto & PSV Eindhoven
the 3 teams that won the next 3 European Cup Finals after the ban on English clubs
I think the English teams at that time would have gone very close to winning even more

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You are totally right; I can't argue with the facts. So it got me thinking - how could I reconcile the poor quality on display in 1979 (relative to the World Cup highlights) with these facts?

At first I thought it could just be the Liverpool factor i.e a freakishly good English club side winning so much silverware. And indeed they did in 77, 78. and 81. But that still left Forrest (79 and 80) and Villa (82).

But given that Man U and Arsenal were 'good teams' why did the match look like dross?. So maybe a Cup Final - end of season, tired players, adrenaline pumping - didn't showcase our football very well.

And then again I was looking at World Cup clips which were very heavily edited highlights: the best of the best, across an era dating from 1974.

So I was comparing apples with oranges to some extent. Plus many of the international teams then seemed to have great players distributed across many club sides. Again, the national teams could well have been the best of the best.

But there was a kind of awfulness about the play in that Final: lump it up to Joe Jordan, get a knock-down and give the ball back to the opposition. Repeat many times. Intuitively we kind of knew that our football was falling behind - tactically (4-4-2), technically (skill sets) and possibly fitness wise (our teams could win domestically while nursing hangovers?). But maybe calling it the Dark Ages was a bit unfair.

Anyway - you've made me think, so thanks for that.

Two average teams that season. It was the equivalent of Sheffield Utd v. Burnley today and about as entertaining for the first 85 minutes

 

[lawros left foot]

You are totally right; I can't argue with the facts. So it got me thinking - how could I reconcile the poor quality on display in 1979 (relative to the World Cup highlights) with these facts?

At first I thought it could just be the Liverpool factor i.e a freakishly good English club side winning so much silverware. And indeed they did in 77, 78. and 81. But that still left Forrest (79 and 80) and Villa (82).

But given that Man U and Arsenal were 'good teams' why did the match look like dross?. So maybe a Cup Final - end of season, tired players, adrenaline pumping - didn't showcase our football very well.

And then again I was looking at World Cup clips which were very heavily edited highlights: the best of the best, across an era dating from 1974.

So I was comparing apples with oranges to some extent. Plus many of the international teams then seemed to have great players distributed across many club sides. Again, the national teams could well have been the best of the best.

But there was a kind of awfulness about the play in that Final: lump it up to Joe Jordan, get a knock-down and give the ball back to the opposition. Repeat many times. Intuitively we kind of knew that our football was falling behind - tactically (4-4-2), technically (skill sets) and possibly fitness wise (our teams could win domestically while nursing hangovers?). But maybe calling it the Dark Ages was a bit unfair.

Anyway - you've made me think, so thanks for that.

When I was younger, it was a ritual onCup Final day that all my friends would get together in the pub at lunchtime, a good few scoops, then , laden down with a carry out of our chosen tinned beer, retire to someone’s house and watch the game. Having more than a few mates who were armchair United fans,I always ‘supported’ any team that played against them, and I remember this particular final, mainly because I was a gooner for the day.

It was also one of the worst finals I can remember, aside from the last 5 minutes. Most Cup Finals were pretty dire in those days, too much at stake, cos the Cup was important then, but, 1979 was an absolute stinker, for the most part. I think this may have coloured your thinking that all English football was as poor as this game.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

When I was younger, it was a ritual onCup Final day that all my friends would get together in the pub at lunchtime, a good few scoops, then , laden down with a carry out of our chosen tinned beer, retire to someone’s house and watch the game. Having more than a few mates who were armchair United fans,I always ‘supported’ any team that played against them, and I remember this particular final, mainly because I was a gooner for the day.

It was also one of the worst finals I can remember, aside from the last 5 minutes. Most Cup Finals were pretty dire in those days, too much at stake, cos the Cup was important then, but, 1979 was an absolute stinker, for the most part. I think this may have coloured your thinking that all English football was as poor as this game.

Agreed. So a poor choice by ITV perhaps.