[Drinking] 10PM pub closing. what will people do ?

[Bozza]

Oh don't be so pious or obtuse when you realise the point being made. To conflate my comments on data with some imagined idea that I don't care about those who have lost loved ones is at best unfair and at worst, insulting.

I really have no idea what you're banging on about now.

You see "just data", I see that data represents a worsening situation that means I can fully understand why there is concern amongst the government's lead advisors.

FWIW, I think the UK government have quite an obvious strategy - to find a blend of measures that allows economic and social activity to be as great as possible whilst keeping viral spread, and its fallout, as low as possible.

Unfortunately the implementation of that strategy has been poor, and communication has been even worse. It's been ridiculously confusing and I'll admit to losing track of what level of social interaction (number of people / different households) was within the guidelines at different times.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I really have no idea what you're banging on about now.

You see "just data", I see that data represents a worsening situation that means I can fully understand why there is concern amongst the government's lead advisors.

FWIW, I think the UK government have quite an obvious strategy - to find a blend of measures that allows economic and social activity to be as great as possible whilst keeping viral spread, and its fallout, as low as possible.

Unfortunately the implementation of that strategy has been poor, and communication has been even worse. It's been ridiculously confusing and I'll admit to losing track of what level of social interaction (number of people / different households) was within the guidelines.

I suspect the main problem is transmission in schools. The upsurge in infections has co-incided with the beginning of term. There is simply no way of containing the virus when children are taking it home to infect parents and siblings. The bubbles were always just a way to be seen to be doing something.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This. Really, how can people not see that this is a failing government struggling to come up with a coherent policy ? It's no better than the 6 rule ( which I have to admit to breaking at the weekend - and intend to again ). What makes 6 people together any less of a risk than 7 ? How many families can there be of six or less ? Equally, if government advisors ( Cuuunnnntttings for example ) and MPs ( look at the train pictures today about no mask ) can break the rules with no punishment then why should I bother to listen to them ? Utterly, utterly, utterly ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the £10k fines !!!!!! **** rant over .... for now ****

You didn't want Cameron as PM
You didn't want May as PM
You wanted Johnson as PM
You wanted Johnson to have a majority
You voted for Johnson to get a majority

And you are now moaning because you got what you wanted, this Johnson led Government is failing and struggling to come up with a coherent policy, and nobody can see it ? If only someone could have foreseen this happening.

So, because you are annoyed at their failure, you have decided to break the rules and announce on NSC that you are going to continue to break the rules introduced by this Government in order to try and keep people safe. (Although I appreciate that you had a medical condition that meant it was impossible for you to wear a facemask, so you weren't deliberately flaunting that particular rule).

Obviously, people's safety comes a distant second to your paddy because you don't want to follow the rules that the government you voted for have introduced.

I am actually speechless (much to everyone on NSC's amazement).

 

[Screaming J]

Its not the closing at 10pm thats the main issue here, its that table service will be a law. This is going to cause major issues for many pubs, it also means that every time you get a drink a waiter will be lingering around you for longer than if you went up to the bar.

I think the table service is key. I'm lucky, my local has been doing this since pubs reopened and we've all got used to it. Also strict on 6 per table

I have been a bit of a wuss/careful though and haven't been in when there's footy in or the evening, just to be on the safe side!

 

[LamieRobertson]

I suspect the main problem is transmission in schools. The upsurge in infections has co-incided with the beginning of term. There is simply no way of containing the virus when children are taking it home to infect parents and siblings. The bubbles were always just a way to be seen to be doing something.

And yet the pie chart near the beginning of this thread shows it’s care homes (well at least for a recent week) ...against that I saw a graph on triage calls that spiked shortly after schools opened..runny noses? Note the seven day average on triage is trending down

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And yet the pie chart near the beginning of this thread shows it’s care homes (well at least for a recent week) ...against that I saw a graph on triage calls that spiked shortly after schools opened..runny noses? Note the seven day average on triage is trending down

I know of positive cases in schools in Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex. It’s happening right now so may not be in the figures as yet. Every one of these cases will have led to more.

 

[Hamilton]

I really have no idea what you're banging on about now.

You see "just data", I see that data represents a worsening situation that means I can fully understand why there is concern amongst the government's lead advisors.

FWIW, I think the UK government have quite an obvious strategy - to find a blend of measures that allows economic and social activity to be as great as possible whilst keeping viral spread, and its fallout, as low as possible.

Unfortunately the implementation of that strategy has been poor, and communication has been even worse. It's been ridiculously confusing and I'll admit to losing track of what level of social interaction (number of people / different households) was within the guidelines at different times.

So there is a strategy that is a blend of measures but that blend of measures has been poorly implemented and communicated?

That does not sound like a strategy, it sounds like reactive measures.

I think you do know what I am banging on about and I would still like you to point out where I suggested that deaths were 'just data'. Or you can retract that comment.

 

[Hamilton]

What are these different challenges please? Also what have their strategies been and how have they been effective?

I saw positives ref NZ but then read a few negative that people found it be too oppressive - not sure if an oppressive strategy would be accepted here. Also recall reading that the damage to their economy was severe - but could not provide a comparison with the impact on our own economy.

Taiwan. Now they do appear to have handled it well. However do you truly believe that the population of the UK would be so welcoming or subservient to accept such a strategy?

Singapore also is reported to have had a strong hand and hard approach. However it seems a big challenge for them was how to protect the labour migrants that they were only to happy to welcome when it suited.

Canada - I have not read a lot on their approach (but will see what I can locate). They do appear to have had some high case numbers in parts but these appear to be confined to the urban areas and have not as one might expect impacted on the massive less populated areas where people have often lived in isolation for many generations.

Be interested to read why you feel these strategies are better than ours ( or as you suggested our lack of) and how they can benefit us here. Would we accept a strict and at times brutal control? Would we toe the line on rigidly enforced curfews? I suspect not we’ve had it too easy for too long. Not sure that a 10pm pub closing time would be the issue at the top of many’s concerns!

Why would I bother answering these questions? You go and look it up if you want the answers.

For some it is early intervention and a real world class track and trace
For others it is testing testing testing
For others it has been stringent isolation methods

I suppose the question is, which of these are we focusing on doing well in the UK, if any, and if any of them are suitable to us.

Here's an interesting article from back in April that shows a link. Lots of the leaders doing well then were women.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivah...es-have-in-common-women-leaders/#5af8e1bc3dec

 

[Is it PotG?]

I am actually speechless (much to everyone on NSC's amazement).

Allebloodylujah!

 

[Saltydog]

Why would I bother answering these questions? You go and look it up if you want the answers.

For some it is early intervention and a real world class track and trace
For others it is testing testing testing
For others it has been stringent isolation methods

I suppose the question is, which of these are we focusing on doing well in the UK, if any, and if any of them are suitable to us.

Here's an interesting article from back in April that shows a link. Lots of the leaders doing well then were women.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivah...es-have-in-common-women-leaders/#5af8e1bc3dec

Your earlier response if I understood you correctly suggests we do not have a strategy for managing the virus or it’s impact both socially and economically. I asked you who has strategies that you could look at with a view of learning/taking them on.

You have reeled off a few countries who have a relatively low number of confirmed cases and deaths.

Now you are not willing to answer why you think they have strategies that would work here.

I agree that testing has proved its worth in the Far East where they have previous experience of these nasty little viruses and it’s a shame we did not latch onto that in the early stages.

Testing alone is not the answer. We need behavioural changes as well and for the populous to be more compliant. However can you seriously see our youth happily accepting that they comply or risk physical punishment- no neither can I !!

Lockdown is proving to be just a way to slow this bugger down and not the solution. I expect globally we will stumble along and gradually get a vaccine rolled out - but will this need to be like the flu jab from here on in and be administered?

PS. Apologies for my previous flippant ending. Just so fed up with seeing constant criticism but no constructive suggestions.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The final score death toll and the longer term financial ramifications for any nation can in no way be assessed yet.

That, alas, is a long way down the road.

X is doing better than Y blah blah.

Population densities and demographics have a large say.

 

[Durlston]

It's coming up to a full year since I had an alcoholic drink so it makes no odds to me. Personally, I think pubs should be shut full stop to potentially save 10,000 lives but if that's what the Government are happy with, more fool them.

 

[Hamilton]

Your earlier response if I understood you correctly suggests we do not have a strategy for managing the virus or it’s impact both socially and economically. I asked you who has strategies that you could look at with a view of learning/taking them on.

You have reeled off a few countries who have a relatively low number of confirmed cases and deaths.

Now you are not willing to answer why you think they have strategies that would work here.

Okay. Do carry on throwing your stones.

Can you not read Mr Magoo!

For some it is early intervention and a real world class track and trace
For others it is testing testing testing
For others it has been stringent isolation methods

Also, your memory is failing you. As I said earlier, I'm not paid to come up with the strategy, but I can see there isn't one.

Good grief.

 

[Lever]

People who voted for Johnston should surely adhere to his edicts and exhort the rest of us to do so.
The rest of us should do what we need to do to shield both ourselves and others from harm, whilst doing everything we can to remove this idiot from office.

 

[Bozza]

So there is a strategy that is a blend of measures but that blend of measures has been poorly implemented and communicated?

That does not sound like a strategy, it sounds like reactive measures.

I think you do know what I am banging on about and I would still like you to point out where I suggested that deaths were 'just data'. Or you can retract that comment.

1. You might want to refresh yourself on the difference between strategy and tactics.

2. I can't retract something I didn't say. You dismissed the statistics I quoted that clearly illustrate the worsening situation of the Covid-19 epidemic in this country as "just data". I countered that 40,000 deaths could be considered "just data". At no point did I suggest you thought that. It seems you draw the line somewhere between escalating hospitalisations of very sick people - "just data" and deaths - "bad stuff". Got it. Understood.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

OK - lots to pick through and equally lots to make you look stupid. So let's start with this bit :

You didn't want Cameron as PM - where have I ever said this ?
You didn't want May as PM - Once again, somewhat putting words in my mouth. Never had an issue with her becoming the PM but history clearly shows she was useless. Feel free to provide my quotes saying otherwise on both counts.
You wanted Johnson as PM - I wanted the Tory Party to win to actually get Brexit done. Labour and the Lib Dems didn't want Brexit. Johnson happened to be the leader - I wouldn't vote for him personally.
You wanted Johnson to have a majority - And yet again, I wanted the Tory Party to have a majority because of Brexit
You voted for Johnson to get a majority - I didn't vote for Johnson, I couldn't, it wasn't actually possible. Clearly the UK voting system is too complicated for your elderly mind.

And you are now moaning because you got what you wanted, this Johnson led Government is failing and struggling to come up with a coherent policy, and nobody can see it ? If only someone could have foreseen this happening.

Quite happy with their Brexit policies and actions thank you. They are absolutely failing on Covid though. Yet again you're too stupid to understand that someone can agree with some policies of a government or political party but not others. Around 19,000 fines issued for Covid breaks so far .... and less than half paid. That says a lot.

So, because you are annoyed at their failure, you have decided to break the rules and announce on NSC that you are going to continue to break the rules introduced by this Government in order to try and keep people safe.

Yawn .... yes, I break the rules, as do millions of others. That's because the rules make no sense - they rarely back them up with scientific data ( I'd love to see the data showing that closing pubs two hours early has proven to stop the spread - feel free to provide it ).

(Although I appreciate that you had a medical condition that meant it was impossible for you to wear a facemask, so you weren't deliberately flaunting that particular rule).

Ah, that bug bear, you really can't help yourself can you ? Maybe we should call you Dave ? I note the way you word the sentence - using the word "impossible" rather than "exempt" is very telling. Not been really challenged once about it out and about so it's obviously a certain NSC group that have such an issue with GOVERNMENT APPROVED EXEMPTIONS. FYI - I've had people come up to me in shops commenting about my lanyard and badge saying they've been verbally abused and physically threatened for not wearing a mask yet they are exempt. Maybe we need to create a new group called pro-maskers and highlight them for they really are.

Obviously, people's safety comes a distant second to your paddy because you don't want to follow the rules that the government you voted for have introduced.

Hmmm, quite a leap there. And actually quite an offensive one.

I am actually speechless (much to everyone on NSC's amazement).

Far from speechless quite clearly given your diatribe of a post. If only you were speechless .... it would save many of us some minutes in our lives reading your tripe.


EDIT - and well done for sending this to the Bear Pit.

 

[Chicken Run]

OK - lots to pick through and equally lots to make you look stupid. So let's start with this bit :





Quite happy with their Brexit policies and actions thank you. They are absolutely failing on Covid though. Yet again you're too stupid to understand that someone can agree with some policies of a government or political party but not others. Around 19,000 fines issued for Covid breaks so far .... and less than half paid. That says a lot.



Yawn .... yes, I break the rules, as do millions of others. That's because the rules make no sense - they rarely back them up with scientific data ( I'd love to see the data showing that closing pubs two hours early has proven to stop the spread - feel free to provide it ).



Ah, that bug bear, you really can't help yourself can you ? Maybe we should call you Dave ? I note the way you word the sentence - using the word "impossible" rather than "exempt" is very telling. Not been really challenged once about it out and about so it's obviously a certain NSC group that have such an issue with GOVERNMENT APPROVED EXEMPTIONS. FYI - I've had people come up to me in shops commenting about my lanyard and badge saying they've been verbally abused and physically threatened for not wearing a mask yet they are exempt. Maybe we need to create a new group called pro-maskers and highlight them for they really are.



Hmmm, quite a leap there. And actually quite an offensive one.



Far from speechless quite clearly given your diatribe of a post. If only you were speechless .... it would save many of us some minutes in our lives reading your tripe.


EDIT - and well done for sending this to the Bear Pit.

Of course he’s sent it to the Bear Pit, it’s where he’s most comfortable.


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[Chicken Run]

How the hell has a thread about pubs closing to into yet another political binfest quite literally ffs.


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[Chicken Run]

How the hell has a thread about pubs closing at 10pm morphed into yet another political binfest, quite literally ffs.


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How the hell has this happened [emoji35]


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[Saltydog]

Can you not read Mr Magoo!

For some it is early intervention and a real world class track and trace
For others it is testing testing testing
For others it has been stringent isolation methods

Also, your memory is failing you. As I said earlier, I'm not paid to come up with the strategy, but I can see there isn't one.

Good grief.

No need to revert to name calling. It weakens your debating position.

Please see my updated response. I guess I was writing that whilst you were name calling.

If world class tracking systems were simple to introduce I am sure that the many counties with citizens moaning about what ever their governing bodies do would have them in place. It’s all about a willingness to comply (or fear not to). Do you see full compliance down in Shoreham?

I would love you to suggest that we introduce those stringent isolation methods you refer to over here.