[Albion] 10-game ban and 50-loyalty point deduction

[Justice]

Given that Bloom, himself, designed the loyalty system and that Barber said that Bloom was involved here - and given this whole thing is about trying to fix the abuse of it, then what makes you think he isn't ? There's 250 people or so on Albion's books, this idea that one person is solely responsible for devising the policies or decisions that are controversial or unpopular (and presumably all the good stuff too) is a bit far fetched.

Where are you getting the one person thing from I would hope Barber is capable of delegating.

 

[Justice]

You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with it, are blind as to why it pisses people off. Most people on here have explained why they think it has its benefits, there just might be a better way to get around the issue with a bit of effort from the club to be proactive and find why people are buying tickets and not using them, or selling them on.

Does make you wonder if there had been no ejections from grounds would they even bother?

 

[Hamilton]

You can’t see the reasons people are pissed off ie other people accumulating loyalty points to perpetuate their ability to buy tickets even when they aren’t actually going to these games. Every person who does this is bumping another person down the queue, potentially to another points bracket.

I understand why people get pissed off, but for me it’s about the punishment fitting the crime.

The club probably think this will be a talking point and by making an example of a fan it will deter others. That’s true to a degree, but it also shows a callous nature on behalf of the club. That’s not a good reputation to pursue. It’s an example of how a divide can open up between club and fans. It’s simply not necessary.

I don’t sense that Brighton is a brave club anymore. We’re canny and smart, but not brave. This is probably for a whole different thread, but if our purpose was being a ‘community club’ would we behave like this? No.

I’ll always be a Brighton fan, but it is also true that I somehow feel far less connected to the club than anytime in the last decade.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

I don’t even know what the options are with an unwanted away ticket, in 40 odd years I’ve never owned one, until now that is when I bought an Everton ticket about half an hour before they announced a rail strike. Is that thirty quid down the khazi if I can’t even give it away?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Where have I said that I don’t see why people are pissed off? Please point me to the post

Sorry, I misunderstood. If you see then you’re not bothered I guess.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I understand why people get pissed off, but for me it’s about the punishment fitting the crime.

The club probably think this will be a talking point and by making an example of a fan it will deter others. That’s true to a degree, but it also shows a callous nature on behalf of the club. That’s not a good reputation to pursue. It’s an example of how a divide can open up between club and fans. It’s simply not necessary.

I don’t sense that Brighton is a brave club anymore. We’re canny and smart, but not brave. This is probably for a whole different thread, but if our purpose was being a ‘community club’ would we behave like this? No.

I’ll always be a Brighton fan, but it is also true that I somehow feel far less connected to the club than anytime in the last decade.

We are all different but the new rules/penalties make me feel the reverse. By reaching out to the honest majority the club is showing a connection to those who behave within the spirit and intention of the loyalty points scheme. My analogy would be in teaching. It is wrong (imo) to cater exclusively for the rule breakers. Such a policy has a negative effect on those kids who want to do the right thing.
As to the punishment fitting the crime; similar again; sometimes a statement needs to be made.

 

[Stat Brother]

We are all different but the new rules/penalties make me feel the reverse. By reaching out to the honest majority the club is showing a connection to those who behave within the spirit and intention of the loyalty points scheme. My analogy would be in teaching. It is wrong (imo) to cater exclusively for the rule breakers. Such a policy has a negative effect on those kids who want to do the right thing.
As to the punishment fitting the crime; similar again; sometimes a statement needs to be made.

The punishment does fit the crime because the punishment was in place before this crime was committed, probably why they tried to falsify the ticket.

 

[JBizzle]

I understand why people get pissed off, but for me it’s about the punishment fitting the crime.

The club probably think this will be a talking point and by making an example of a fan it will deter others. That’s true to a degree, but it also shows a callous nature on behalf of the club. That’s not a good reputation to pursue. It’s an example of how a divide can open up between club and fans. It’s simply not necessary.

I don’t sense that Brighton is a brave club anymore. We’re canny and smart, but not brave. This is probably for a whole different thread, but if our purpose was being a ‘community club’ would we behave like this? No.

I’ll always be a Brighton fan, but it is also true that I somehow feel far less connected to the club than anytime in the last decade.

So a community club shouldn't self-regulate it's fanbase? I actually completely disagree here. A club is a community, the bigger a club gets, the more detached you get because it's only logical that if you were at Withdean (for example), you felt more involved than now.

If a club is a community, why should I not be able to get a ticket to an away game because another fan has been giving his tickets away to others and not actually attending? Should only the club care about the community and not it's members? Surely preventing that is catering more to the wider community than the individuals in question?

This bit isn't directed at you Hamilton, but a wider point: To me the biggest problem is that people don't care about the bigger picture any more. How dare the club treat me this way? I should be able to to what I want and say what I want without consequence, and if anyone challenges that then all hell will break loose.

The fact is, there are consequences to actions, they may appear heavy-handed, but they're pretty clearly visible rules. In this case, should the OP be banned? No, because he didn't commit the crime, but if he wants to take the punishment for his son's misdemeanour then I don't really think he has a leg to stand on.

 

[chaileyjem]

Ref your point 1, the T&Cs issued by the club extend to 162 pages! That is blatantly ridiculous and doesn't include the adhoc emails and tweets etc..

this is true but in this specific case the Dad has tweeted he "knew the rules" and also said that the kids knew them too, hence altering the name on the ticket.

 

[sparkie]

The cynics would think the Dad was very happy to have his ticket used and the "loyalty" points topped up - without him even knowing as well !

But who's a cynic these days ? Lol.

 

[Giraffe]

I have always been concerned that an innocent fan could get a ban for this where a family or friend member bought a ticket in their name without them knowing. It is pretty easy to do.

Like many people over the years I have added friends to my friends and family group just for the odd game. They are still then in that group so could potentially buy a ticket in my name. How would I know? I could then get a ban. I recognise this is something they can't control but it does feel like the punishment is very harsh in this circumstance.

I've reviewed my family and friends group and deleted a few. Whilst I would trust all of them, a less regular fan attendee could do it in all innocence if they are not following this whole saga.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I have always been concerned that an innocent fan could get a ban for this where a family or friend member bought a ticket in their name without them knowing. It is pretty easy to do.

Like many people over the years I have added friends to my friends and family group just for the odd game. They are still then in that group so could potentially buy a ticket in my name. How would I know? I could then get a ban. I recognise this is something they can't control but it does feel like the punishment is very harsh in this circumstance.

I've reviewed my family and friends group and deleted a few. Whilst I would trust all of them, a less regular fan attendee could do it in all innocence if they are not following this whole saga.

Yeah, but I guess in this case the club did offer to reverse his ban, presumably for this reason, and give it to his son. He just decided to serve his sons punishment. We wouldn't have 15 pages on this if it was the son that was banned

 

[Justice]

Sorry, I misunderstood. If you see then you’re not bothered I guess.

It doesn’t affect me tbh, occasionally I go to an away game last league game was West Ham this season, Arsenal in the cup.
I have an attic full of programs dating back to 1986 when I started doing nearly every away that’s far more loyalty than a few games in the PL never to be rewarded with the appropriate points.

 

[Hamilton]

So a community club shouldn't self-regulate it's fanbase? I actually completely disagree here. A club is a community, the bigger a club gets, the more detached you get because it's only logical that if you were at Withdean (for example), you felt more involved than now.

If a club is a community, why should I not be able to get a ticket to an away game because another fan has been giving his tickets away to others and not actually attending? Should only the club care about the community and not it's members? Surely preventing that is catering more to the wider community than the individuals in question?

This bit isn't directed at you Hamilton, but a wider point: To me the biggest problem is that people don't care about the bigger picture any more. How dare the club treat me this way? I should be able to to what I want and say what I want without consequence, and if anyone challenges that then all hell will break loose.

The fact is, there are consequences to actions, they may appear heavy-handed, but they're pretty clearly visible rules. In this case, should the OP be banned? No, because he didn't commit the crime, but if he wants to take the punishment for his son's misdemeanour then I don't really think he has a leg to stand on.

I agree, the club should be able to hand down punishments to fans who abuse the system. You're right. It's not fair on other fans. I do think that the punishment is too severe and leaves the club open to be accused of being draconian. I would have a simpler system - points deducted and a one game ban for first offence and then a harsher penalty for second offence. That way it shows a little more care towards the fans. My sense is that by imposing a 10-game ban straight away, then the club really is imposing a parent/child approach to the relationship, and that in itself creates distance.

There should be consequences for actions and that works both ways. The consequence for this particular fan is that they can't go to 10 games. The consequence for the club is that I observe this, think it is unjust, and the club loses just a little bit of my loyalty. In stances like this it becomes the death of a thousand cuts. Small actions become large actions. The club is quick to take a flask of tea of a pensioner but can't muster a decent enough search to stop away fans taking flares into the ground. Why do I use this example? Because we bring in non-common sensical rules that just create distance.

To my mind, when the Albion survived and we as a collective said we were a community club, I thought we would do things differently. It has taken the club an age to introduce the Fan Advisory Board, and even that took the scandal of the European Super League and the threat of government regulation to hasten its arrival. We have a women's team who are playing in Crawley when we have a perfectly good stadium here in Falmer. We are a city that is proud to stand up for LGBTQ+ rights and yet we did nothing to note our disappointment at FIFA's decision to award the World Cup to a country where homosexuality is banned and where women can not make life decisions without the permission of a male guardian.

Yes, we do have Albion In The Community, but every other club has something similar. Our history IS different. We DID save our club. We saved it for a reason. Not just so that professional football would survive in Sussex* but so that we could be a beacon for other clubs. I think we've lost that. Nowadays, I think we are just a footballing project - an example of how you can buy and sell players wisely and work your way up the league. What a lost opportunity. Why are we not also campaigning for safe standing; campaigning for respect for referees; campaigning against corruption in sport and pushing for a proper 'Fit & Proper Persons' test. Where's our courage gone?

All this leads me back to this 10-game ban. It's just an easy solution. It hasn't really taken much thought. That's my issue. Off the pitch, we're not really thinking much anymore.

PS: this is all a build on your point JBizzle, not an attack on it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We are all different but the new rules/penalties make me feel the reverse. By reaching out to the honest majority the club is showing a connection to those who behave within the spirit and intention of the loyalty points scheme. My analogy would be in teaching. It is wrong (imo) to cater exclusively for the rule breakers. Such a policy has a negative effect on those kids who want to do the right thing.
As to the punishment fitting the crime; similar again; sometimes a statement needs to be made.

As someone who also teaches, I felt uncomfortable snapping at some first year uni students for talking at the start of one of my lectures recently. Afterwards, to my delight, several students thanked me for creating an atmosphere where they could focus. Separately, the natterers, mortified, apologized.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree, the club should be able to hand down punishments to fans who abuse the system. You're right. It's not fair on other fans. I do think that the punishment is too severe and leaves the club open to be accused of being draconian. I would have a simpler system - points deducted and a one game ban for first offence and then a harsher penalty for second offence. That way it shows a little more care towards the fans. My sense is that by imposing a 10-game ban straight away, then the club really is imposing a parent/child approach to the relationship, and that in itself creates distance.

There should be consequences for actions and that works both ways. The consequence for this particular fan is that they can't go to 10 games. The consequence for the club is that I observe this, think it is unjust, and the club loses just a little bit of my loyalty. In stances like this it becomes the death of a thousand cuts. Small actions become large actions. The club is quick to take a flask of tea of a pensioner but can't muster a decent enough search to stop away fans taking flares into the ground. Why do I use this example? Because we bring in non-common sensical rules that just create distance.

To my mind, when the Albion survived and we as a collective said we were a community club, I thought we would do things differently. It has taken the club an age to introduce the Fan Advisory Board, and even that took the scandal of the European Super League and the threat of government regulation to hasten its arrival. We have a women's team who are playing in Crawley when we have a perfectly good stadium here in Falmer. We are a city that is proud to stand up for LGBTQ+ rights and yet we did nothing to note our disappointment at FIFA's decision to award the World Cup to a country where homosexuality is banned and where women can not make life decisions without the permission of a male guardian.

Yes, we do have Albion In The Community, but every other club has something similar. Our history IS different. We DID save our club. We saved it for a reason. Not just so that professional football would survive in Sussex* but so that we could be a beacon for other clubs. I think we've lost that. Nowadays, I think we are just a footballing project - an example of how you can buy and sell players wisely and work your way up the league. What a lost opportunity. Why are we not also campaigning for safe standing; campaigning for respect for referees; campaigning against corruption in sport and pushing for a proper 'Fit & Proper Persons' test. Where's our courage gone?

All this leads me back to this 10-game ban. It's just an easy solution. It hasn't really taken much thought. That's my issue. Off the pitch, we're not really thinking much anymore.

PS: this is all a build on your point JBizzle, not an attack on it.

The bottom line is the club has to make the decisions. Sometimes they 'feel' fair. Other times they don't. And different supporters have different views about them. But it's the club's job to make the decisions. I don't think it is remotely fair to say 'we' (the club) are 'not really thinking much anymore'. Super harsh!

There are doubtless dozens of NSC lurkers who don't bother engaging with the massed ranks of do-gooder lefties on this board, who are seething they can't smoke and have a spot of mild racist banter at the football. I have had the occasional 'playing the man' messages from irate old school twerps who feel moved to attempt to brand me as this or that whatnot when they can't think of anything sensible to attack me with. This doesn't apply to you, of course. Just making the point that other opinions (some rather extreme) are available.

I like my club. We are on the cusp of something special right now, no longer plucky, but increasingly vulnerable (to exploitation, attack even) as we become increasingly visible, well in the sights of the radar. The management has to be careful. Finding balance, however, is all part of the steep learning curve. Perhaps the management has been overzealous on this occasion, but I'm not concerned about it, or even whether it is the case. Sorry!

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh and no names written on our Southampton tickets.

 

[Titanic]

Oh and no names written on our Southampton tickets.

All 7 of ours have names written in black marker pen.

 

[Hamilton]

The bottom line is the club has to make the decisions. Sometimes they 'feel' fair. Other times they don't. And different supporters have different views about them. But it's the club's job to make the decisions. I don't think it is remotely fair to say 'we' (the club) are 'not really thinking much anymore'. Super harsh!

There are doubtless dozens of NSC lurkers who don't bother engaging with the massed ranks of do-gooder lefties on this board, who are seething they can't smoke and have a spot of mild racist banter at the football. I have had the occasional 'playing the man' messages from irate old school twerps who feel moved to attempt to brand me as this or that whatnot when they can't think of anything sensible to attack me with. This doesn't apply to you, of course. Just making the point that other opinions (some rather extreme) are available.

I like my club. We are on the cusp of something special right now, no longer plucky, but increasingly vulnerable (to exploitation, attack even) as we become increasingly visible, well in the sights of the radar. The management has to be careful. Finding balance, however, is all part of the steep learning curve. Perhaps the management has been overzealous on this occasion, but I'm not concerned about it, or even whether it is the case. Sorry!

Yes, I think as an individual case it's meaningless. The guy let his son be a berk and even admitted as much. But, I'm not sure the means to address the misdemeanour is right and therefore the decision making process that led to that policy needs analysis. In that analysis, I'm left asking why we find ourselves with what I think is an over-reaction. Furthermore, how might this affect future decisions.

I accepting that the club 'not really thinking much anymore' is a harsh line. I'll withdraw that. I guess it's more a case of 'schizophrenic' thinking sometimes. On the one hand we have a CEO who is highly responsive; very articulate, and who usually makes strong clear points (e.g. when the European Super League was proposed). But, beyond the business of football, where do we stand? How often do we campaign for the Fit & Proper Person test? Do we make our views known strongly enough when the likes of Derby are close to going out of business. Wouldn't it have been great if the club had taken #FansUnited and made it part of our DNA? For years, I thought it had. Then I kept kidding myself that we had.

But, as you say, we're on the cusp of something great on the field. I'll be delighted when we achieve it. I just think it could have been so much more than that. But, I accept that we have much more benevolent and benign owners than any other club. But even that description doesn't really fire me up.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Oh and no names written on our Southampton tickets.

Fakes