[Albion] 10-game ban and 50-loyalty point deduction

[Stat Brother]

On something as small scale as an Albion awayday then direct knowledge and experience is all that is needed.

Cost for a 15 year old to go on a Premier League awayday is proportionately astronomical compared to the golden age of teenagers going to football together. That cost is only relevant if they can manage to secure a ticket which is currently impossible for the nearer league games.

Esp when points are being harvested by those not going to the game!!!

 

[jackalbion]

Why are young fans "victims" of the loyalty point system ? I could argue that (some) younger fans, with no families, more disposable income, free weekends have the freedom to have a season ticket and go to multiple away games earning points. Far harder , you could argue for parents, or other fans with responsibilities and weekend/evening commitments to accumulate points. Anyway this is all a bit anecdotal - how do we know ? . I don't see any shortage of kids, twentysomethings at the away games i go to.

More thinking of 16-18 year olds, they couldn't accumulate points as much now, I only have my points because I went to games in the championship and league one, when it was easy to get tickets, and you could quite easily gain points, as every game was attainable, the vast majority of the 20-30s you see at games have been ones who have been there since the championship. If you are a 16-18 year-old with no disposable income, and parents that aren't willing to help you go to away games you get left out, there's no junior seagulls coach these days, this is a lot of the people I see buying the tickets off people on social media. I know man city have a ballot for 24 and under for 20% of their tickets so its not the same people staying at the top of the loyalty point pile and there is a way in. At Arsenal they don't have anything and if you are a child of parents who have no real interest away tickets are near on impossible as there is not really a way into the system.

 

[chaileyjem]

I only have my points because I went to games in the championship and league one, when it was easy to get tickets, and you could quite easily gain points, as every game was attainable

Is it really that different now to 2016 or even 2011 for 16-18 year olds ? Away tickets if anything are cheaper.

 

[amexer]

Albion will have the figures but looking around very low % of under 20 supporters. If true is this a concern for future.. This is more so now cant hand ticket over. I may be a little cynical but feel club are delighted when people cant attend big games as ticket can be sold at matchday price. on exchange. Would it not be a good idea to loosen the rules on sharing and to allow a ST holder to be able to pass there ticket on to say an under 18 year old. Most of us started supporting the Albion by being taken to odd game when young which of course is not easy now.

 

[nwgull]

Seeing as points carried forward are reduced by 50% at the beginning of every season, then surely the majority of your points are through holding a season ticket for consecutive seasons with points carried from Championship seasons a negligible amount after 6 seasons?

 

[chaileyjem]

Would it not be a good idea to loosen the rules on sharing and to allow a ST holder to be able to pass there ticket on to say an under 18 year old. Most of us started supporting the Albion by being taken to odd game when young which of course is not easy now.

U10 half season tickets are currently on general sale to anyone for £90-£110 (9 PL matches). https://tickets.brightonandhovealbion.com/subscriptions

 

[amexer]

U10 half season tickets are currently on general sale to anyone for £90-£110 (9 PL matches). https://tickets.brightonandhovealbion.com/subscriptions

I know but not going to take an under 10 year old unless they can sit next to you

 

[chaileyjem]

I know but not going to take an under 10 year old unless they can sit next to you

Not denying that its cheap or that its difficult - especially at the moment to find both the time and the money. But There's plenty of ways you can start an Albion habit that already exist as well as the ability - which i know you strongly believe is something the club should relent on - to share you ticket with anyone for free.

 

[jackalbion]

You are conflating some issues and ignoring others which, I think, is behind our disagreement on this thread. One issue the club is concerned about is incidents that lead to ejection of fans and/or police involvement. They are not trying to prove any point. Rather (and this is another issue), they are in addition enforcing compliance with both the spirit and the letter of the loyalty points scheme. They are doing this in the interests of people lower down the points levels who might want to move up and understandably would like the opportunity to buy tickets when their points tier opens. If there are no sanctions for buying tickets and selling/passing them on then people will continue to do it. There is some inconvenience involved for anybody affected but that could be you, me or anybody else. Just because you have a lot of points you are not entitled to avoid that inconvenience. If you earn your points within the spirit of the rules then other than that occasional inconvenience it doesn’t affect you. I fully appreciate that you don’t like the new rules but misrepresenting the club’s motives on this with absolutely no evidence is always going to lead to a response.

I don't think I have ever stated I agree with the point harvesting, I just don't agree with the way they are tackling the issue. I understand it might not always affect me, but I think I have questioned the system when someone in my group has been picked twice (and no one else has), I accept they say the system is random, but the chance of it happening for multiple games in a row is thousands to one, but fair enough if it was completely random. This is why it has irked me, we as a group have done nothing wrong, we all travel on our own tickets, but one member has had to miss 20 minutes of a game, as well as incorrect names written on tickets. I always think that why don't we look at the solution of why people sell tickets, or why people feel the needs to buy and sell.

 

[jackalbion]

Is it really that different now to 2016 or even 2011 for 16-18 year olds ? Away tickets if anything are cheaper.

Yes because when I was about 14-18, there was no issue getting a ticket for the Charlton 4-0 and the nightmare on London Road (I think that may have even been POTG), and getting a ticket for the parent to take us. Now if you are a 16 year old on 0 away points being allowed to go to a London away game on your own, you don't have a chance to even get a ticket. Even in the championship I remember easily getting tickets for all the London games, and all my friends got tickets, some who weren't even STH. Before you even discuss cost, it does become a bit of a club for away games, I have no sympathy for people who won't do the far northern games and then complain about not getting tickets if they have the opportunity to do so, but with the way the cost of living has affected travel to football 16 year olds just don't have the opportunities.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Esp when points are being harvested by those not going to the game!!!

Why are young fans "victims" of the loyalty point system ? I could argue that (some) younger fans, with no families, more disposable income, free weekends have the freedom to have a season ticket and go to multiple away games earning points. Far harder , you could argue for parents, or other fans with responsibilities and weekend/evening commitments to accumulate points. Anyway this is all a bit anecdotal - how do we know ? . I don't see any shortage of kids, twentysomethings at the away games i go to.

On something as small scale as an Albion awayday then direct knowledge and experience is all that is needed.

Cost for a 15 year old to go on a Premier League awayday is proportionately astronomical compared to the golden age of teenagers going to football together. That cost is only relevant if they can manage to secure a ticket which is currently impossible for the nearer league games.

Proving that things are never as binary as they can be presented, there is merit in all of these posts. The issue really isn't the youngsters who ARE travelling, it's the ones who are NOT. Knocking cost and kick off times out for a moment another issue will be the ability to get tickets, particularly for the nearer games which is surely where we all started? But, where I agree with the club is that the way to help this isn't to allow a free for all, but rather to prevent point harvesting.

 

[jackalbion]

Seeing as points carried forward are reduced by 50% at the beginning of every season, then surely the majority of your points are through holding a season ticket for consecutive seasons with points carried from Championship seasons a negligible amount after 6 seasons?

But the only way you can keep up with the group is if you carry on attending, definitely first season in the premier league it was a closed shop, but as people got less interested it became less so.

 

[BNthree]

In any line of business growing the market rather than competing for market share is a good thing. However, I was talking specifically about young fans and, actually, though I didn't say it, young noisy ones.

Last season we met a group of Littlehampton lads who were following Littlehampton Town everywhere. When I was 20 or so they would undoubtedly have gone to the Goldstone instead where there was always a big LA contingent in the North Stand. Whitehawk have a noisy group of Ultras. Again, I suspect they would have been Goldstone goers back in the day.

Whitehawk probably isn't the best example but I do think Worthing with their growing success would be a an example of local non-league club that is attracting the sort of fans you're talking about. Loads of young lads (just about to leave school/just started college/got their first job sort of age) going to their matches. Was on a train headed west on Saturday and it seemed like there were easily a few hundred of that sort headed to Havant to support the Rebels. They were clearly loving it and doing the sort of day out you described enjoying when you were young.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Whitehawk probably isn't the best example but I do think Worthing with their growing success would be a an example of local non-league club that is attracting the sort of fans you're talking about. Loads of young lads (just about to leave school/just started college/got their first job sort of age) going to their matches. Was on a train headed west on Saturday and it seemed like there were easily a few hundred of that sort headed to Havant to support the Rebels. They were clearly loving it and doing the sort of day out you described enjoying when you were young.

I'll see for myself tomorrow. Three of us heading to their game with Ebbsfleet. One mate born in Gravesend so Ebbsfleet are his local club, one living in Worthing and me! Can't wait tbh.

 

[Justice]

So according to the club ejections at away games are fans using other peoples tickets. We have heard nothing about these individuals passing on tickets and what punishment they received. Looks to me they have solved 80% of the issue by punishing the supposed fans who have passed on tickets if this is all true.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Yes because when I was about 14-18, there was no issue getting a ticket for the Charlton 4-0 and the nightmare on London Road (I think that may have even been POTG), and getting a ticket for the parent to take us. Now if you are a 16 year old on 0 away points being allowed to go to a London away game on your own, you don't have a chance to even get a ticket. Even in the championship I remember easily getting tickets for all the London games, and all my friends got tickets, some who weren't even STH. Before you even discuss cost, it does become a bit of a club for away games, I have no sympathy for people who won't do the far northern games and then complain about not getting tickets if they have the opportunity to do so, but with the way the cost of living has affected travel to football 16 year olds just don't have the opportunities.

Takes me back - a group of us 12/13 year olds did the Priestfield years via coach, from memory less than £15 a head for the day (coach £5, food £5, match ticket £5)

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Proving that things are never as binary as they can be presented, there is merit in all of these posts. The issue really isn't the youngsters who ARE travelling, it's the ones who are NOT. Knocking cost and kick off times out for a moment another issue will be the ability to get tickets, particularly for the nearer games which is surely where we all started? But, where I agree with the club is that the way to help this isn't to allow a free for all, but rather to prevent point harvesting.

If the club want to get more teenagers going to London away games (and they'll have plenty of data on whether there really is a worryingly low proportion or not) they could reserve a number for people who fit that category and don't already meet the points requirements.
I know it's been mentioned before, but a lot of Premier League clubs have systems that effectively require a fan to attend about 15 away games minimum every season to qualify for away matches (I'm thinking specifically of my colleague who's had a season ticket at Everton her whole life but is nowhere near getting any away ticket in the league).

 

[East Staffs Gull]

It just seems fundamentally wrong to me that if you purchase an away ticket and then can’t attend, for example because of illness, travel disruption, etc. that there are no options whatsoever to resell or return your ticket. As a very minimum I believe that the club should be willing to give refunds for sold out away games up to say 6 hours prior to kick off. Not only would the original ticket holder receive a refund (less perhaps an admin fee), but another eligible fan would then be able to attend.

 

[Springal]

It just seems fundamentally wrong to me that if you purchase an away ticket and then can’t attend, for example because of illness, travel disruption, etc. that there are no options whatsoever to resell or return your ticket. As a very minimum I believe that the club should be willing to give refunds for sold out away games up to say 6 hours prior to kick off. Not only would the original ticket holder receive a refund (less perhaps an admin fee), but another eligible fan would then be able to attend.

Why would the club want the overheads on it ? Then it’s open to be abused where all the top points buy tickets for every game, just to be sold last minute to all tiers.

Likewise means less initial tickets for the lower tickets initial sale

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I'll see for myself tomorrow. Three of us heading to their game with Ebbsfleet. One mate born in Gravesend so Ebbsfleet are his local club, one living in Worthing and me! Can't wait tbh.

Also hoping to be there tomorrow evening. Will be my 10th home game at Worthing this season (plus 2 away) ... more than the 6+2 Brighton games I've been to!