Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
They do for me when I turn up
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[Albion] ST revoked for touting Arsenal game? Now with PB response (post #306)
- Thread starter Goldstone1976
- Start date
They do for me when I turn up
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Wouldn’t happen in Germany
Weststander
Well-known member
It's a debate, let's respect varying opinions.
But virtually everyone seems pretty much in unison that selling on tickets through the internet is out of order, whilst passing them to mates/family is still fine (the club are not using an iron fist to crush that).
In the first few Amex years if I was off on holiday, I'd sell our 2 s/t's to complete strangers through pm'ing on NSC. It would seem that's now a risky thing to do, so we simply wouldn't do it.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Not that easy though is it, games are graded, so tickets for Huddersfield at home are different to Man Utd, ergo the season ticket isn't the total cost divided by 19. Who dictates what a match day value of a season ticket is?
Your phrase is probably right though, 'passed on', which implies to a mate, a relative or a mate of a mate who slips you a twenty as way of thanks – as you've said below.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I think this thread just highlights that some fans need more / better friends. I mean, how hard is it to find people in your life that would want to go to the odd game. 'pass it on' to them for nothing or 'pass it on' to them in exchange for them 'buying' a piece of paper from you for a score - keep quiet and hey presto
Since the Amex era, some on NSC really do think too much about tiny issues and make mountains out of molehills. Actually, this has always happened on here
Agreed. Blame social media I reckon!
Posted on behalf of Paul Barber:
Regarding recent threads concerning the illegal sale or transfer of match or season tickets, Paul Barber explained the club’s policy to various contributors to this message board back in January. Unusually, although Paul indicated he was happy for the message to be published, it wasn’t shared with others on the message board at the time. With references personal to the original email’s recipients deleted so as not to breach the confidentiality of the correspondence, this is what Paul said a few months back:
Unfortunately, as we’ve explained previously, it’s never been acceptable for “fans helping fans” to include the risk of tickets being sold or transferred to banned supporters or to people not known to the ticket holder. In the current security climate, it is even less acceptable and, worse, some would say totally irresponsible.
We are now a high profile Premier League club. Everything we do and say, don’t do and don’t say is scrutinised to the nth degree. As much as it may upset some, we are not – and we cannot be – the club we used to be when it comes to how we must now operate. We are a world away from even our first year or two at the Amex, let alone Withdean.
We have a duty to run the club within the law, to uphold the regulations we sign up to, – and, as importantly, to do everything we possibly can to ensure that our stadium is as safe as it ever can be from risks or threats of any kind. We owe that to all fans, visitors, and our own staff. We’d like to think the vast majority of people would support and understand the sentiment and the responsibility we have.
We are of course well aware we allow season ticket holders to buy guest tickets without a guest name added, which some may say flies in the face of wanting to know who is in our stadium at all times, but those tickets are linked to the season ticket holder who, under our terms and conditions, buys them with the knowledge they are responsible for the guests they bring. If they subsequently sell those guest tickets on, or their guests do, then, yes, that does have repercussions for the season ticket holder. And has for a small number of people this season.
We could have had a fully functioning ticket exchange in place some time ago. Again, as previously explained, there have been two key reasons why it hasn’t been put in place: (1) a lack of demand (few sell out crowds) in previous seasons has meant this hasn’t been a priority when budgets have to be prioritised and (2) the available business models wouldn’t have worked for the club – or, more importantly, for our fans. Instead, we have developed a simpler system built from scratch that is more cost effective for the club and, as importantly, for fans.
Our own system is currently clunky, it’s highly manual and the financial incentive isn’t great. This also means that the Club’s staff must do a lot of unseen work to make it “live”. So there’s no point out staff listing tickets - a manual process currently - unless we are confident of a sell out as it’s hours of time lost to is.
All this said, it has worked and done a job for us. And we promote it when it’s active, not when it isnt. It’s been used hundreds of times this season already (as well as on several notable occasions last season). It is however a complete myth to suggest transaction volumes will soar with a more automated exchange or a better financial incentive. It didn’t at Spurs back in my day there - and it doesn’t at other clubs now.
For whatever reason there’s a reluctance amongst some fans to offer their seat for exchange, regardless of the process or incentive. I really don’t know why. It’s the key reason why the big clubs quickly lost very lucrative deals with viagogo and others in the secondary market within a short space of time – quite simply, those providers couldn’t generate a financial return on the guarantees they had paid to clubs upfront because subsequent transaction volumes were too low.
I know that many fans think this is a simple problem to fix. I’m afraid it isn’t. There are three basic business models (and some hybrids):
the provider pays a big fee to the club - and then owns the club’s secondary ticket market; the provider either allows a “free market” on prices and/or they charge a % to buyer and seller. These deals usually only exist for the biggest clubs (and less so now).
a hefty license fee is charged to the club for the software. The club can either provide a free or fixed market for re-sale pricing (and takes a % of the transaction value if it is above face value) or, more common, it charges fees to buyers and/or sellers.
the club works with a provider to develop its own exchange, imposes conditions on sale (e.g. to buy you must be a club member to minimise potential security issues) thereby limiting flexibility to a degree but also limiting costs to fans as far as is possible too.
Clearly, a simpler more flexible ticket exchange system, with a better financial incentive, will help enormously - and its coming - but the vast majority of PL clubs still experience up to 10% of “no shows” every week. That’s a lot of empty seats every game. And, yes, we are as frustrated as those fans that see the empty seats - and those fans that want to get access to them. It’s a topic of regular debate amongst clubs – and it has been for years. But we can’t re-sell what we don’t get back!
So, we have been working to refine
the current clunky ticket exchange to make it easier for us to activate and, more importantly, so it will be easier for fans to use. Unfortunately, the delay in implementation has been due to a complex payment system issue that has had much wider commercial repercussions for us.
Once resolved, and we are now very close to this, it will be a better system that automatically returns cash to fans if their listed ticket is sold - not vouchers.
In summary, those that want to use the current ticket exchange, clunky and inflexible as it is, have been doing so – and some fans have been doing so regularly. But it doesn’t ever make sense to activate the “sale” side of a ticket exchange when a club has tickets of its own left to sell. I think that’s fairly obvious. And, currently, we can only promote it when its activated because it is a waste of time and resource to pre-list tickets when the exchange might not get activated, hence the long-awaited upgrade. The new system should allow fans to list at any time and to withdraw their listing if their circumstances change. To repeat, it will also return cash not vouchers. The cost to the supporter will also be as low as possible - a benefit to fans of waiting to develop our own system, and a very good reason for fans not to use unofficial websites or message boards to sell or pass on to strangers tickets they can’t use themselves.
Regards, Paul
Regarding recent threads concerning the illegal sale or transfer of match or season tickets, Paul Barber explained the club’s policy to various contributors to this message board back in January. Unusually, although Paul indicated he was happy for the message to be published, it wasn’t shared with others on the message board at the time. With references personal to the original email’s recipients deleted so as not to breach the confidentiality of the correspondence, this is what Paul said a few months back:
Unfortunately, as we’ve explained previously, it’s never been acceptable for “fans helping fans” to include the risk of tickets being sold or transferred to banned supporters or to people not known to the ticket holder. In the current security climate, it is even less acceptable and, worse, some would say totally irresponsible.
We are now a high profile Premier League club. Everything we do and say, don’t do and don’t say is scrutinised to the nth degree. As much as it may upset some, we are not – and we cannot be – the club we used to be when it comes to how we must now operate. We are a world away from even our first year or two at the Amex, let alone Withdean.
We have a duty to run the club within the law, to uphold the regulations we sign up to, – and, as importantly, to do everything we possibly can to ensure that our stadium is as safe as it ever can be from risks or threats of any kind. We owe that to all fans, visitors, and our own staff. We’d like to think the vast majority of people would support and understand the sentiment and the responsibility we have.
We are of course well aware we allow season ticket holders to buy guest tickets without a guest name added, which some may say flies in the face of wanting to know who is in our stadium at all times, but those tickets are linked to the season ticket holder who, under our terms and conditions, buys them with the knowledge they are responsible for the guests they bring. If they subsequently sell those guest tickets on, or their guests do, then, yes, that does have repercussions for the season ticket holder. And has for a small number of people this season.
We could have had a fully functioning ticket exchange in place some time ago. Again, as previously explained, there have been two key reasons why it hasn’t been put in place: (1) a lack of demand (few sell out crowds) in previous seasons has meant this hasn’t been a priority when budgets have to be prioritised and (2) the available business models wouldn’t have worked for the club – or, more importantly, for our fans. Instead, we have developed a simpler system built from scratch that is more cost effective for the club and, as importantly, for fans.
Our own system is currently clunky, it’s highly manual and the financial incentive isn’t great. This also means that the Club’s staff must do a lot of unseen work to make it “live”. So there’s no point out staff listing tickets - a manual process currently - unless we are confident of a sell out as it’s hours of time lost to is.
All this said, it has worked and done a job for us. And we promote it when it’s active, not when it isnt. It’s been used hundreds of times this season already (as well as on several notable occasions last season). It is however a complete myth to suggest transaction volumes will soar with a more automated exchange or a better financial incentive. It didn’t at Spurs back in my day there - and it doesn’t at other clubs now.
For whatever reason there’s a reluctance amongst some fans to offer their seat for exchange, regardless of the process or incentive. I really don’t know why. It’s the key reason why the big clubs quickly lost very lucrative deals with viagogo and others in the secondary market within a short space of time – quite simply, those providers couldn’t generate a financial return on the guarantees they had paid to clubs upfront because subsequent transaction volumes were too low.
I know that many fans think this is a simple problem to fix. I’m afraid it isn’t. There are three basic business models (and some hybrids):
the provider pays a big fee to the club - and then owns the club’s secondary ticket market; the provider either allows a “free market” on prices and/or they charge a % to buyer and seller. These deals usually only exist for the biggest clubs (and less so now).
a hefty license fee is charged to the club for the software. The club can either provide a free or fixed market for re-sale pricing (and takes a % of the transaction value if it is above face value) or, more common, it charges fees to buyers and/or sellers.
the club works with a provider to develop its own exchange, imposes conditions on sale (e.g. to buy you must be a club member to minimise potential security issues) thereby limiting flexibility to a degree but also limiting costs to fans as far as is possible too.
Clearly, a simpler more flexible ticket exchange system, with a better financial incentive, will help enormously - and its coming - but the vast majority of PL clubs still experience up to 10% of “no shows” every week. That’s a lot of empty seats every game. And, yes, we are as frustrated as those fans that see the empty seats - and those fans that want to get access to them. It’s a topic of regular debate amongst clubs – and it has been for years. But we can’t re-sell what we don’t get back!
So, we have been working to refine
the current clunky ticket exchange to make it easier for us to activate and, more importantly, so it will be easier for fans to use. Unfortunately, the delay in implementation has been due to a complex payment system issue that has had much wider commercial repercussions for us.
Once resolved, and we are now very close to this, it will be a better system that automatically returns cash to fans if their listed ticket is sold - not vouchers.
In summary, those that want to use the current ticket exchange, clunky and inflexible as it is, have been doing so – and some fans have been doing so regularly. But it doesn’t ever make sense to activate the “sale” side of a ticket exchange when a club has tickets of its own left to sell. I think that’s fairly obvious. And, currently, we can only promote it when its activated because it is a waste of time and resource to pre-list tickets when the exchange might not get activated, hence the long-awaited upgrade. The new system should allow fans to list at any time and to withdraw their listing if their circumstances change. To repeat, it will also return cash not vouchers. The cost to the supporter will also be as low as possible - a benefit to fans of waiting to develop our own system, and a very good reason for fans not to use unofficial websites or message boards to sell or pass on to strangers tickets they can’t use themselves.
Regards, Paul
maltaseagull
Well-known member
In a different scenario, I wanted to buy a ticket for a home game but by the time I am able to buy one (Registered as a previous tickets ) It seems season ticket holders are able to buy additional tickets before bronze or my category.
So, if I was able to persuade a season ticket holder to buy a ticket for me and my grandaughter, would that be in breach of the terms and conditions?
So, if I was able to persuade a season ticket holder to buy a ticket for me and my grandaughter, would that be in breach of the terms and conditions?
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
I'm not sure where, but that has been posted on here before as I remember reading it. Since Google doesn't bring up any results, it might have been on a thread that has since been deleted. Regardless, it doesn't really address the concerns people have raised in this thread.
Weststander
Well-known member
I think bronze members get first pick for PL games. How about buying a second bronze membership (it's not expensive), so that you can buy 2 tickets for any match you like. As a non-ST holder and bronze member, if I remember the dates particular tickets gp on sale, I've been able to see every match I wanted this season in the stand of my choosing. (I don't have many points, which doesn't affect the above advice for home games).
So.....
-better ticket exchange on the way with cash back. Has to be a good thing, we’ll continue to sell out most games if we stay in the PL for several seasons I suspect
-unclear if this would allow the selling back of non STH tickets (imagine not ?)
-silent on handing season ticket to a mate (so would take this to mean they’ll still turn a blind eye to this, but can’t freely allow it/condone it)
-better ticket exchange on the way with cash back. Has to be a good thing, we’ll continue to sell out most games if we stay in the PL for several seasons I suspect
-unclear if this would allow the selling back of non STH tickets (imagine not ?)
-silent on handing season ticket to a mate (so would take this to mean they’ll still turn a blind eye to this, but can’t freely allow it/condone it)
You’ve highlighted the issue nicely.
If, in those first few years, the club had cancelled the tickets you’d sold on NSC and advised you that your fan number was blocked “indefinitely” it would have come as a bit of a shock. However, they’ve just started doing just that and there are people on here saying it’s your own stupid fault for selling them.
Think you have misunderstood. Things are now clearer. Things may have changed. Like 'Love Thy Neghbour'....we have moved on.
Weststander
Well-known member
The voters of Peterborough, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, etc haven't moved on.
Weststander
Well-known member
Sorry that I can't be bothered to wade through 300 posts, if the answer's there already, but how exactly have the club caught out s/t holders who have passed their physical s/t card to a mate or family member for a game? For those particular circumstances, have they really cancelled s/t's?
Like a dog with a bone!!!
It's been explained to you time and time again. Seems everyone else was aware apart from you, your friend and an extremely small minority.
Nitram
Well-known member
- Jul 16, 2013
- 2,268
Sorry I don't understand your point in relation to my argument could you explain?
I haven’t said I didn’t know. I said the person I know who got caught didn’t know. I have also said that the clubs actions were seriously over the top and that they acted insensitively.
I believe I’ve also said the ticket in question was bought with a bronze membership, for which the club offer no solution apart from “tough luck”.
I agree that reselling for profit should be stopped and that this is what the club should concentrate their efforts on. They would be far better to spend their time and effort on sorting out a proper, club sanctioned alternative for their own supporters rather than alienating them.
Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
I think the spirit of the rules are, you don’t sell or even give your ST to anyone even a friend that supports the opposition. Secondly you don’t sell your ticket at a profit to anyone to attend a game. You can give to a friend who supports BHA for a game and or they can pay you either the fave value or less for a game u can’t attend.
Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me
Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me
You missed the important bit: don't advertise it publicly.