Star Wars: The Force Awakens - with Spoilers - discussion thread

Iggle Piggle · Jan 6, 2016

Loads of Star Wars is unbelievable. If the jedi are so clever whose bright idea was it to hide Luke with his uncle of the same name? How on earth is a green frog the hardest creature in the universe? How can you expect Jedi to keep the peace when they aren't allowed a bit of jiggy jiggy - surely that's asking for trouble?

I guess good filmmaking suspends your disbelief which happened to me during the force awakens and the original 3. During the prequels it was so contrived I just spent all my time picking holes in it.

JC Footy Genius · Jan 6, 2016

Finally got round to seeing it today (3D) it was ok but felt a bit underwhelmed.

Yet another 7ish out of 10 film :shrug:

Bold Seagull · Jan 6, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
Finally got round to seeing it today (3D) it was ok but felt a bit underwhelmed.

Yet another 7ish out of 10 film

How did it compare with the other 6? Any go beyond 7 out of 10?

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

Bladders said:
For those who complain about aspects of the new film that are too convenient/unbelievable,

no one ever seems to worry when its Luke in Empire though....

SPOILER ALERT if you havent seen Empire Strikes Back

You mean just after he's had his arse handed too him?

Think that kind of proves the point. Luke got beat up and needed rescuing by others quite a bit early on.

Rey just breezes through without a single bit of training being able to do and control pretty much everything she has to without a problem. That's why it's laughable.

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

Papa Lazarou said:
I'd love to know what [MENTION=4800]Tyrone Biggums[/MENTION] thought of the Prequels if he disliked THIS one

Anakin was widely berated for being a rubbish character at the time.

Why should Rey escape the same criticism?

Because it's a good looking woman instead?

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Kylo Ren isn't a Jedi (or Sith). His training is also incomplete.

It took Luke quite a bit of training to even be able to lift a box off the ground with the force. Ren stopped a blaster shot mid air and kept it frozen.

So they start off with him doing something very difficult that only a highly trained Jedi could do and by the time he battles Ren he's become a complete amateur when it comes to the force.

All it adds up is to a poorly written script and plot.

Bold Seagull · Jan 6, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
Anakin was widely berated for being a rubbish character at the time.

Why should Rey escape the same criticism?

Because it's a good looking woman instead?

I think the main reason is that the whole series of films require a suspension of belief to enjoy them. Your acting like you've got some kind of intellectual insight that everyone has missed, but basically, it's the FORCE dude, it doesn't obey logic, perhaps it has awakened in her so strongly she is a super-jedi! Every single star wars film requires that leap of faith, some have required less of a leap than others, but they all require a leap.

I have little doubt you went into that cinema wanting to unpick the film, not enjoying it for the spectacle, but glued to every plot hole you could find. Crikey, Mark Kermode even enjoyed the bloody thing and he hates star wars!

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

Bold Seagull said:
I think the main reason is that the whole series of films require a suspension of belief to enjoy them. Your acting like you've got some kind of intellectual insight that everyone has missed, but basically, it's the FORCE dude, it doesn't obey logic, perhaps it has awakened in her so strongly she is a super-jedi! Every single star wars film requires that leap of faith, some have required less of a leap than others, but they all require a leap.

I have little doubt you went into that cinema wanting to unpick the film, not enjoying it for the spectacle, but glued to every plot hole you could find. Crikey, Mark Kermode even enjoyed the bloody thing and he hates star wars!

Wrong. The first few films may have required a suspension of belief, but this far into the series history to simply say everything she does is because OMG she's awesome and that's why she's a super Jedi is excusing poor plot and character development. There's plenty of background history and limitations set. But hey. that's how JJ works with his films.

What you're saying is people need to put their "stupid hat" on and just swallow it all up without any critiquing of the film being possible because "leap of faith explains everything". Even if it explains nothing.

I didn't say I didn't enjoy it, I sad Rey is a comical character whose storyline and abilities are a laugh.

Awesome theory.

JC Footy Genius · Jan 6, 2016

Bold Seagull said:
How did it compare with the other 6? Any go beyond 7 out of 10?

Star Wars and Empire Strikes back were 8/9 out of 10

Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi 7ish

Attack of the clones and Phantom menace 5/6 ish

beorhthelm · Jan 6, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
Why should Rey escape the same criticism?

Because it's a good looking woman instead?

because theres a bit more about her, she's clearly able to handle herself and adept at technical things. shes aware of the force so at least has an idea what might be possible. it is layed on too thick, but she's not as wet as Luke, who managed to get over the loss of uncle and aunt in the morning, before rescuing a princess from a fortress by tea time. just enjoy it.

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

beorhthelm said:
because theres a bit more about her, she's clearly able to handle herself and adept at technical things. shes aware of the force so at least has an idea what might be possible. it is layed on too thick, but she's not as wet as Luke, who managed to get over the loss of uncle and aunt in the morning, before rescuing a princess from a fortress by tea time. just enjoy it.

She thought the force and the Jedi were just a myth. So she wasn't aware of it at all other than being like a fairytale.

Next minute...

Bold Seagull · Jan 6, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
Wrong. The first few films may have required a suspension of belief, but this far into the series history to simply say everything she does is because OMG she's awesome and that's why she's a super Jedi is excusing poor plot and character development. There's plenty of background history and limitations set. But hey. that's how JJ works with his films.

What you're saying is people need to put their "stupid hat" on and just swallow it all up without any critiquing of the film being possible because "leap of faith explains everything". Even if it explains nothing.

I didn't say I didn't enjoy it, I sad Rey is a comical character whose storyline and abilities are a laugh.

Awesome theory.

Where is your post where you said you enjoyed it, or anything positive at all?

I'm not saying stupid hat at all, or do you only deal in extremes, seriously, chill out, it was a fun film, bloodyhell.

One Love · Jan 6, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
She thought the force and the Jedi were just a myth. So she wasn't aware of it at all other than being like a fairytale.

Next minute...

Maybe she was born with huge amounts of midichlorians in her which was the explanation behind Anakins pod-racing abilities etc.

If plot holes spoil your enjoyment of fantasy science fiction films then I can imagine you're continually disappointed

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

Bold Seagull said:
Where is your post where you said you enjoyed it, or anything positive at all?

I'm not saying stupid hat at all, or do you only deal in extremes, seriously, chill out, it was a fun film, bloodyhell.

I've been a fan since I saw it in 77 in the theatre as a kid. SO yeah, I've invested a bit of my life in it as a fan.

I can critique the film however the hell I like to be honest. That's what people do with movies you know?

Not everyone is a popcorn sloth that just sits there and gets sucked in by all the pretty colours and explosions. If that's your thing that's fine.

Bold Seagull · Jan 6, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
She thought the force and the Jedi were just a myth. So she wasn't aware of it at all other than being like a fairytale.

Next minute...

Luke wasn't aware of it either. I could argue with you all night - because it's science fiction of course, but the premise of the film is that the force has gone dormant, like disappeared, or no one is acting with it, so bang it awakens when it effectively needs to bring something into effect. BB8 finds her just like R2 did with Luke. The force then seemingly spirals around this entity, perhaps the chosen one afterall. The entire good side of the force is suddenly channelled into her, the Force Awakens. It isn't really so hard to believe, and doesn't really need a stupid hat. Just needs a chilled mind. I mean, this is the same story arc where no human being could pilot a pod racer, but 6 year old Anakin can, as well as build it, and a protocol droid! And you're worried about she piloted a ship she could have been test flying for years, and that she one a fight against Ren, shot at that point, fought Fynn off etc. etc.

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 6, 2016

One Love said:
Maybe she was born with huge amounts of midichlorians in her which was the explanation behind Anakins pod-racing abilities etc.

If plot holes spoil your enjoyment of fantasy science fiction films then I can imagine you're continually disappointed

Most fantasy science fiction movies don't have a detailed history like SW

Shit character development can often spoil a movie. Except for people who are easily duped that is.

Bold Seagull · Jan 6, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
I've been a fan since I saw it in 77 in the theatre as a kid. SO yeah, I've invested a bit of my life in it as a fan.

I can critique the film however the hell I like to be honest. That's what people do with movies you know?

Not everyone is a popcorn sloth that just sits there and gets sucked in by all the pretty colours and explosions. If that's your thing that's fine.

Most people do it without attacking it. You know - constructive critique, rather than 'look at me, I didn't like it because I saw through the plot holes'...Your sentence above confirms to me you just like to feel that little bit superior eh....either agree with you, or it's popcorn sloth. Brilliant, I'm surprised your saw the pretty colours and explosions with your head up your...

Papa Lazarou · Jan 7, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
Anakin was widely berated for being a rubbish character at the time.

Why should Rey escape the same criticism?

Because it's a good looking woman instead?

Because Anakin had no character, he was a walking plot device, who couldn't act.

Rey has developed more interest and character (IMHO) in this one film than they ever were able to develop (without forcing it down our throats) in the 3 Prequels with Anakin.

It also helps all of the characters that they are in an interesting story, without comedy racist rabbits, CGI everything and a plot that's about taxation of trade routes!

One Love · Jan 7, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
Most fantasy science fiction movies don't have a detailed history like SW

Shit character development can often spoil a movie. Except for people who are easily duped that is.

So anyone who enjoyed the movie is easily duped??

You are taking this far too seriously.

Snoke remarks to Ren that he felt a disturbance in the force after Rey flew the Falcon. So presumably the force gave her a lot of assistance to make her escape and continued to do so throughout the film.

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 7, 2016

Bold Seagull said:
Luke wasn't aware of it either. I could argue with you all night - because it's science fiction of course, but the premise of the film is that the force has gone dormant, like disappeared, or no one is acting with it, so bang it awakens when it effectively needs to bring something into effect. BB8 finds her just like R2 did with Luke. The force then seemingly spirals around this entity, perhaps the chosen one afterall. The entire good side of the force is suddenly channelled into her, the Force Awakens. It isn't really so hard to believe, and doesn't really need a stupid hat. Just needs a chilled mind. I mean, this is the same story arc where no human being could pilot a pod racer, but 6 year old Anakin can, as well as build it, and a protocol droid! And you're worried about she piloted a ship she could have been test flying for years, and that she one a fight against Ren, shot at that point, fought Fynn off etc. etc.

The force isn't dormant. Ren is using it. He killed a bunch of other people VERY recently who had it. So your theory of "it awakens" isn't right.

Dormant suggests it's been unused or untrained in a long time.

As pointed out, Anakin was a rubbish character, why is Ren excused from being looked upon as such?

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