De Menezes police case

desprateseagull · Nov 1, 2007

so the Metropolitan Police are 'convicted' of failing to protect the public on health and safety grounds, during the lead up to the tragic shooting of this (innocent) guy..

what puzzles me is -

why there was only one guy observing the block of flats, with no cover when he needed a leak (presume thats what they meant by having to releive himself, or was the job that boring?)

why armed police took so long to get on the case, ivo failed bomb attempts the day before.

and why no one thought to try and stop the guy long before he got into a confined, crowded space like the underground?

I wouldnt mind being stopped (just once, mind) if cops thought i looked like someone else, rather than let the whole thing go tits up, and someone ends up dead.

Ian Blair's statement after the case seemed to make out they were entirely justified in shooting an innocent person, 'for the greather good..'

Barrel of Fun · Nov 1, 2007

Why did they let him on a bus before he entered the tube station?

Questions · Nov 1, 2007

Barrel of Fun said:
Why did they let him on a bus before he entered the tube station?

If he had no ticket................. good point. London transport are losing millions to fare-dodgers.

clapham_gull · Nov 1, 2007

Questions said:
If he had no ticket................. good point. London transport are losing millions to fare-dodgers.

He had an Oyster card.

I was on the platform just about to board the train he was on and would have been in the carriage with in.

At the last minute, I decided to get on another line.

I know that sounds a little ooh, I was ALMOST there!, but that's the way it was and I missed it by seconds.

I knew something was "odd" about the reporting of the issue, because the next day I spoke to a couple of shopkeepers who I speak to (the paperman and the coffee man) and they were grilling me about what I'd seen.

There wasn't much going on that time in the morning, rush hour had calmed down and they both remembered me. Well I asked them the same thing, neither of them saw a bloke in a heavy coat, neither saw anyone "jumping the barrier" either.

Stockwell is a very small station, with a small sqaure concourse. If someone jumps the barriers EVERYONE sees it.

Anyway - the fault of the people who actually shot him.

I read something incredible tonight - one of the marksmen dragged one of the observing officers down the platform because he didn't have a clue he was also a policeman.

NMH · Nov 1, 2007

The old bill lied through their lying teeth about this, because someone totally screwed up - and the blame is far-reaching due to the lack of 'intelligence' done concerning the whole affair.

What about the real suspects they were tracking, did they get pulled in? or was the whole exercise just plain wrong?

More questions than answers, and disguising the idiocy surrounding their foolhardy enterprise is something they STILL feebly attempt to pull off.
As recently as last month, there were allegations of cocaine use by Menezes (as if that would gain sympathy for the idiots who murdered him anyway!).
The bill just come off worse and worse with every squeek, and they should really have just come to the table and admit that it was poorly planned, and 'executed' with little foundation or relative care for the importance of what they planned to do to a human being without trial.

It serves to underline that one thing - that the police should never ever be allowed to become judge and jury, in the course of duty in law enforcement.
They are absolutely clueless. Fact.

pasty · Nov 1, 2007

I see Ian Blair is still not going to resign though. Is there anyone powerful enough to sack him? Gordon Brown ?

Buzzer · Nov 1, 2007

I blame someone.

Barrel of Fun · Nov 1, 2007

It is a disgrace that noone has been brought to book. Fair enough, if he was holding a hand grenade or clearly had a bomb, then it would be understandable. There are bound to be people that think 'throw enough mud and some will stick', we will eventually geta terrorist, but I would loathe to be that sort of country. 'Sir' Ian Blair should have fallen on his sword and all of his cronies should be soul searching, not clubbing together to free themselves of any blame.

An innocent man was killed for no reason and they have been trying to cover their tracks ever since. It makes me sick to the gut.

I used to frequent The Swan as I had a friend who lived around the corner form Stockwell Tube. I visited the flowers/epithaphs and so on. Very moving to see messages from family who were so happy that he had found himself a life in London. Shame on the Met.

finbar · Nov 2, 2007

Barrel of Fun said:
It is a disgrace that noone has been brought to book. Fair enough, if he was holding a hand grenade or clearly had a bomb, then it would be understandable. There are bound to be people that think 'throw enough mud and some will stick', we will eventually geta terrorist, but I would loathe to be that sort of country. 'Sir' Ian Blair should have fallen on his sword and all of his cronies should be soul searching, not clubbing together to free themselves of any blame.

An innocent man was killed for no reason and they have been trying to cover their tracks ever since. It makes me sick to the gut.

I used to frequent The Swan as I had a friend who lived around the corner form Stockwell Tube. I visited the flowers/epithaphs and so on. Very moving to see messages from family who were so happy that he had found himself a life in London. Shame on the Met.

This whole case stinks. Can you imagine what the outcry would have been if it had been a British person whod been shot..which it could easily have been - the process followed meant the guy was dead once he left his front door. It turned out basically a random person was slaughtered due to police incompetence.

beorhthelm · Nov 2, 2007

i've been somwhat suprised at the amount of indignation over this issue. it is unfortunatly not the first time an innocent person has been shot by the police and it probably wont be the last. Hopfully the police can improve procedures and training to avoid such a stupid cock up again. the officers paniced basically and in the air of fear there was at the time i suspect each and any one of you would have acted as they did on the information they had.

Questions · Nov 2, 2007

clapham_gull said:
He had an Oyster card.

I was on the platform just about to board the train he was on and would have been in the carriage with in.

At the last minute, I decided to get on another line.

I know that sounds a little ooh, I was ALMOST there!, but that's the way it was and I missed it by seconds.

I knew something was "odd" about the reporting of the issue, because the next day I spoke to a couple of shopkeepers who I speak to (the paperman and the coffee man) and they were grilling me about what I'd seen.

There wasn't much going on that time in the morning, rush hour had calmed down and they both remembered me. Well I asked them the same thing, neither of them saw a bloke in a heavy coat, neither saw anyone "jumping the barrier" either.

Stockwell is a very small station, with a small sqaure concourse. If someone jumps the barriers EVERYONE sees it.

Anyway - the fault of the people who actually shot him.

I read something incredible tonight - one of the marksmen dragged one of the observing officers down the platform because he didn't have a clue he was also a policeman.

You should thank your lucky stars then that you resemble Charlie Oatway and not a suicide bomber who have dark skin and wear heavy overcoats.

Yorkie · Nov 2, 2007

beorhthelm said:
i've been somwhat suprised at the amount of indignation over this issue. it is unfortunatly not the first time an innocent person has been shot by the police and it probably wont be the last. Hopfully the police can improve procedures and training to avoid such a stupid cock up again. the officers paniced basically and in the air of fear there was at the time i suspect each and any one of you would have acted as they did on the information they had.

You're right, but people love to be judgemental about such situations, especially with hindsight.

keaton · Nov 2, 2007

beorhthelm said:
i've been somwhat suprised at the amount of indignation over this issue. it is unfortunatly not the first time an innocent person has been shot by the police and it probably wont be the last. Hopfully the police can improve procedures and training to avoid such a stupid cock up again. the officers paniced basically and in the air of fear there was at the time i suspect each and any one of you would have acted as they did on the information they had.

The problem is not just that it happened, but that the police refuse to accept they've done anything wrong and no-one's been properly punished. I'm sure neither you or Yorkie will complain if someone you know is executed by the police for no real reason and get away with it, as at least you'll feel safe in your police state

Yorkie · Nov 2, 2007

keaton said:
The problem is not just that it happened, but that the police refuse to accept they've done anything wrong and no-one's been properly punished. I'm sure neither you or Yorkie will complain if someone you know is executed by the police for no real reason and get away with it, as at least you'll feel safe in your police state

My police state?
Where is the evidence that the police did anything but make a tragic mistake in the heat of the moment?

keaton · Nov 2, 2007

Executing someone without trial or evidence, i say that's pretty in keeping with a police state

tip top · Nov 2, 2007

Yorkie said:
You're right, but people love to be judgemental about such situations, especially with hindsight.

Oh come on you cannot be serious.

From the start the case was a complete farce and the met tried to cover their bloody tracks with lie after lie.

Not even a charge of pervertring the course of justice has been brought to one person.

A f***ing disgrace IMO.

Nibble · Nov 2, 2007

What was the reason they gave for tracking this guy anyway?

British Bulldog · Nov 2, 2007

Yorkie said:
Where is the evidence that the police did anything but make a tragic mistake in the heat of the moment?

So you should'nt be punished for making a mistake then Yorkie?

Monkster · Nov 2, 2007

Yorkie said:
My police state?
Where is the evidence that the police did anything but make a tragic mistake in the heat of the moment?

Hang on.....the police were convicted in a HEALTH & SAFETY Case.

Wait until the Inquest before deciding it was a tragic mistake

seagullsovergrimsby · Nov 2, 2007

clapham_gull said:
:
I read something incredible tonight - one of the marksmen dragged one of the observing officers down the platform because he didn't have a clue he was also a policeman.

I believe the reason why everything has been whitewashed is that some of the "policemen" were actually SAS. (allegedly)

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