[News] VE Day - 80th anniversary - 8/5/25

Jim in the West · Monday at 12:00 PM

I'm not a great follower of the various events marking the First and Second World wars - however, it strikes me that this year's VE Day celebrations may be slightly different. Now it's clear that we're on the same side as Germany, and the US is basically an enemy. How will this play out on 8th May?

Eeyore · Monday at 1:17 PM

The US isn't an enemy. It's a nation of 300 million people. There are folks on here from the States and it isn't healthy to start such talk.

The VE Day thing isn't about sides anyway. It's about solemn memory of sacrifice.

Brovion · Monday at 1:26 PM

Eeyore said:
The US isn't an enemy. It's a nation of 300 million people. There are folks on here from the States and it isn't healthy to start such talk.

The VE Day thing isn't about sides anyway. It's about solemn memory of sacrifice.

Agreed. And with the rise of Reform and far-right groups like AfD getting 20% (twenty percent!) of the German vote we need to stress the message: Never Again. (Although quite how we can assure that I don't know. Sad and worrying times).

As an aside I also hope it's a chance to give a polite cough and remind a lot of people born in these islands that Britain's history isn't all about exploitation, colonialism and slavery.

AmexRuislip · Monday at 1:32 PM

A thread that in all connotations is meant to be in celebration of our peers achievements, then turns out it's a politically motivated thread.
Haven't we been here before IMO

Jim in the West · Monday at 1:35 PM

Eeyore said:
The US isn't an enemy. It's a nation of 300 million people. There are folks on here from the States and it isn't healthy to start such talk.

The VE Day thing isn't about sides anyway. It's about solemn memory of sacrifice.

I guess the point I was making was how things have changed so dramatically recently - and whilst the US does, indeed, comprise hundreds of millions of individuals, its government is extremely anti-European. An ally doesn't threaten crippling tariffs, it doesn't threaten to take over Greenland, it doesn't side with Russia, it doesn't (on an almost daily basis) ridicule European leaders, our culture, etc. If America wants to stop being seen as an adversary or enemy, then all it needs to do is stop acting like one!

GT49er · Monday at 1:41 PM

Jim in the West said:
I'm not a great follower of the various events marking the First and Second World wars - however, it strikes me that this year's VE Day celebrations may be slightly different. Now it's clear that we're on the same side as Germany, and the US is basically an enemy. How will this play out on 8th May?

It strikes me that the celebrations will be substantively no different at all - with dignity and respect, as it should be. The fact that the USA is ruled by a lying cheating criminal psychopath in this context is neither here nor there.

A1X · Monday at 1:45 PM

The VE Day celebrations aren’t usually the same as the D Day ones anyway, those are the big international showpiece ones (as we saw last summer), whereas the VE Day ones tend to be more national than international

Eeyore · Monday at 1:56 PM

Jim in the West said:
I guess the point I was making was how things have changed so dramatically recently - and whilst the US does, indeed, comprise hundreds of millions of individuals, its government is extremely anti-European. An ally doesn't threaten crippling tariffs, it doesn't threaten to take over Greenland, it doesn't side with Russia, it doesn't (on an almost daily basis) ridicule European leaders, our culture, etc. If America wants to stop being seen as an adversary or enemy, then all it needs to do is stop acting like one!

As valid as the points you make are, I'm not seeing their relevance here. Unless they are shoehorned in.

The VE commemorations (they are not celebrations when so many died) are about honouring and remembering sacrifice. The USA took the biggest human hit over that period of time and we remember the vital role their forces played.

The situation needs to have as much politics taken out of it as possible. That is another discussion. This may be the last major milestone for many of those, of all nationalities, who were involved. It should be their day. I don't know if any American service personnel would be fit to make the journey. But it's about them as much as us.

Through all the suffering there is a message of humanity. If Trump comes then he is welcomed as the democratic leader of that nation, whatever we think of his actions. He will representing the American people, not himself. Well, that's the hope anyway.

But talk of enemies etc, best leave that aside. Lest those who we are paying honour to somehow be sidelined.

Jim in the West · Monday at 2:04 PM

Eeyore said:
As valid as the points you make are, I'm not seeing their relevance here. Unless they are shoehorned in.

The VE commemorations (they are not celebrations when so many died) are about honouring and remembering sacrifice. The USA took the biggest human hit over that period of time and remember the vital role their forces played.

The situation needs to have as much politics taken out of it as possible. That is another discussion. This may be the last major milestone for many of those, of all nationalities, who were involved. It should be their. I don't know if any American service personnel would be fit to make the journey. But it's about them as much as us.

Through all the suffering there is a message of humanity. If Trump comes then he is welcomed as the democratic leader of that nation, whatever we think of his actions. He will representing the American people, not himself. Well, that's the hope anyway.

But talk of enemies etc, best leave that aside. Lest those who we are paying honour to somehow be sidelined.

Well, the official VE Day website calls them "celebrations".

Anyway, my point was not to seek to politicise the event (I'm sure politicians of all sides will be part of the commemorations/celebrations). I was picking up on the comments of likely new German Chancellor (but I was probably rather obtuse!).

From the BBC:

Germany's chancellor-in-waiting didn't wait for the final results of his country's election on Sunday to herald a new era in Europe.
Declaring the US indifferent to this continent's fate, Friedrich Merz questioned the future of Nato and demanded Europe boost its own defences. Quickly.
This tone from the close US ally - and from Friedrich Merz who is known to be a passionate Atlanticist - would have been unimaginable even a couple of months ago.
It's a seismic shift. That may read like hyperbole, but what we are now experiencing in terms of transatlantic relations is unprecedented in the 80 years since the end of World War Two.
Big European powers have been shocked to the core by the Trump administration, which suggests it could revoke the security guarantees to Europe in place since 1945.

Eeyore · Monday at 2:09 PM

Jim in the West said:
Well, the official VE Day website calls them "celebrations".

Anyway, my point was not to seek to politicise the event (I'm sure politicians of all sides will be part of the commemorations/celebrations). I was picking up on the comments of likely new German Chancellor (but I was probably rather obtuse!).

From the BBC:

Germany's chancellor-in-waiting didn't wait for the final results of his country's election on Sunday to herald a new era in Europe.
Declaring the US indifferent to this continent's fate, Friedrich Merz questioned the future of Nato and demanded Europe boost its own defences. Quickly.
This tone from the close US ally - and from Friedrich Merz who is known to be a passionate Atlanticist - would have been unimaginable even a couple of months ago.
It's a seismic shift. That may read like hyperbole, but what we are now experiencing in terms of transatlantic relations is unprecedented in the 80 years since the end of World War Two.
Big European powers have been shocked to the core by the Trump administration, which suggests it could revoke the security guarantees to Europe in place since 1945.

Further to:

I'm never comfortable with the word 'celebrations'. I say this because it is not my victory- it's their victory. I didn't live through it. So I never earned the right to dance in Trafalgar Square or have a party in the street here.

My duty, as a beneficiary of their actions, is to resolve to live in a world where this never happens again. And that is the best way to honour those who gave everything. Had I actually lived through it then I would have had a party, like my parents and grandparents did.

I don't give a flying flamingo what the official site says.

portlock seagull · Monday at 2:21 PM

Jim in the West said:
I'm not a great follower of the various events marking the First and Second World wars - however, it strikes me that this year's VE Day celebrations may be slightly different. Now it's clear that we're on the same side as Germany, and the US is basically an enemy. How will this play out on 8th May?

That's nonsense. The US is still an ally despite Trump. The anniversary is however about reconciliation with former enemy i.e. Germany, and overthrowing the most evil regime in history.

Weststander · Monday at 2:24 PM

With respect for all the fallen, Russia suffered horrendously too.

Javeaseagull · Monday at 2:30 PM

Eeyore said:
As valid as the points you make are, I'm not seeing their relevance here. Unless they are shoehorned in.

The VE commemorations (they are not celebrations when so many died) are about honouring and remembering sacrifice. The USA took the biggest human hit over that period of time and we remember the vital role their forces played.

The situation needs to have as much politics taken out of it as possible. That is another discussion. This may be the last major milestone for many of those, of all nationalities, who were involved. It should be their day. I don't know if any American service personnel would be fit to make the journey. But it's about them as much as us.

Through all the suffering there is a message of humanity. If Trump comes then he is welcomed as the democratic leader of that nation, whatever we think of his actions. He will representing the American people, not himself. Well, that's the hope anyway.

But talk of enemies etc, best leave that aside. Lest those who we are paying honour to somehow be sidelined.

Point of order on “biggest hit” please. The USSR lost by far the most people, even more than Germany, in WW2. 27 Million according to Google to Germanys 5.3 million.

Eeyore · Monday at 2:32 PM

Javeaseagull said:
Point of order on “biggest hit” please. The USSR lost by far the most people, even more than Germany, in WW2. 27 Million according to Google to Germanys 5.3 million.

Yes, that would be correct. My mind was more focused on the retaking of France and the low countries as well as the move into Germany.

Pavilionaire · Monday at 2:41 PM

Eeyore said:
As valid as the points you make are, I'm not seeing their relevance here. Unless they are shoehorned in.

The VE commemorations (they are not celebrations when so many died) are about honouring and remembering sacrifice. The USA took the biggest human hit over that period of time and we remember the vital role their forces played.

The situation needs to have as much politics taken out of it as possible. That is another discussion. This may be the last major milestone for many of those, of all nationalities, who were involved. It should be their day. I don't know if any American service personnel would be fit to make the journey. But it's about them as much as us.

Through all the suffering there is a message of humanity. If Trump comes then he is welcomed as the democratic leader of that nation, whatever we think of his actions. He will representing the American people, not himself. Well, that's the hope anyway.

But talk of enemies etc, best leave that aside. Lest those who we are paying honour to somehow be sidelined.

For me personally, I think of Remembrance Sunday in November as the time to honour and reflect on sacrifice, whereas VE Day is a day of celebration of the end of war in Europe. The footage and film of the great day in 1945 is truly moving, with the whole of London seemingly partying in the streets that day.

Yet it is inescapable that in an ironic twist the Russians and the Americans that helped Britain defeat the fascists are now in cahoots and on the opposing side of the table, while we stand shoulder to shoulder with Germany.

As for Trump, he will seek to make whatever political and financial capital he can of VE Day, and will barely give a thought to the American people. Indeed, he'll probably 'big up' the joint Russian and American contribution towards defeating the Nazis and announce that it was them that saved Europe, i.e.:

"From the grinding victory of Stalinburg to the storming of the Normandy beaches by General Tom Hanks and his armies, it was Russia and America that together eliminated the German threat."

Han Solo · Monday at 2:50 PM

Its very 2025 to make a thread about "remember the World Wars" and then people start to post which geographical or ethnical groups that are "allies" or "enemies". Most of us are guilty of the sort of prejudice that will eventually lead to the next bloodbath. You know it is inevitable when we forget that most Americans, Chinese, Russians - whoever really - just want to sit in the sofa and watch TV with their family, just like we want.

MattBackHome · Monday at 2:52 PM

Javeaseagull said:
Point of order on “biggest hit” please. The USSR lost by far the most people, even more than Germany, in WW2. 27 Million according to Google to Germanys 5.3 million.

Point of order inception: Also Poland as a % of population.

levs · Monday at 2:53 PM

Han Solo said:
Its very 2025 to make a thread about "remember the World Wars" and then people start to post which geographical or ethnical groups that are "allies" or "enemies". Most of us are guilty of the sort of prejudice that will eventually lead to the next bloodbath. You know it is inevitable when we forget that most Americans, Chinese, Russians - whoever really - just want to sit in the sofa and watch TV with their family, just like we want.

Stick to football

Chicken Run · Monday at 2:59 PM

Jim in the West said:
I'm not a great follower of the various events marking the First and Second World wars - however, it strikes me that this year's VE Day celebrations may be slightly different. Now it's clear that we're on the same side as Germany, and the US is basically an enemy. How will this play out on 8th May?

How do you think they will play out?

Weststander · Monday at 3:02 PM

Han Solo said:
Its very 2025 to make a thread about "remember the World Wars" and then people start to post which geographical or ethnical groups that are "allies" or "enemies". Most of us are guilty of the sort of prejudice that will eventually lead to the next bloodbath. You know it is inevitable when we forget that most Americans, Chinese, Russians - whoever really - just want to sit in the sofa and watch TV with their family, just like we want.

The nationalities point was picked up on before your post.

The event is purely about remembering the casualties, not glorifying old wars. The people who actually took part in the war like my Grandad swept it under the carpet for their mental wellbeing.

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[News] VE Day - 80th anniversary - 8/5/25

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