[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

peterward · 2025-02-22T20:15:50+0000

Triggaaar said:
It is indeed confusing. What exactly are the US offering in exchange for the money? The NY Times article says they're offering basically nothing.

Yep.

You'll pay us 500B for the 130B of aid delivered by a previous administration, to help you fight against a genoicidal invader, murdering your civilians inside your borders.

You'll also pay double the market rate for any further weapons we send, you'll get no security guarantees, no NATO, we have no plan for how to return any of your stolen territories, and we plan to rehabiliate the genocidal fascist who did this, award him large swathes of your land, put no pressure on him to concede anything at all, allow him back into G7, and try to throw out his war crimes tribunal.

Eric the meek · 2025-02-22T20:19:19+0000

The contract is with the post-war borders undecided. Russia won't give up the territories.

Is the contract for the whole of Ukraine, the non-Russian occupied part of Ukraine only, or the Russian occupied area?

I think I know the answer. It will be for the non-Russian occupied part of Ukraine (sorry Ukraine, we can't evict Russia), and Ukraine are being coerced into signing the contract, before the borders are agreed.

Christ almighty.

Eric the meek · 2025-02-22T20:21:40+0000

So, Russia keeps what it has occupied. The US asset strips the rest of Ukraine. With no security guarantees.

And Europe is expected to maintain the peace.

Hugo Rune · 2025-02-22T20:22:01+0000

Bodian said:
And how will this 'deal' bring about peace? I can't see how it does that at all. Putin isn't going to suddenly stop fighting just because the US have made a huge profit?

Perhaps Trump is planning on giving Putin some of the spoils?

Albion my Albion · 2025-02-22T20:25:29+0000

Does anyone think this Russia/Ukraine war thread will be shutdown by Bozza?

peterward · 2025-02-22T20:27:29+0000

Eric the meek said:
The contract is with the post-war borders undecided. Russia won't give up the territories.

Is the contract for the whole of Ukraine, the non-Russian occupied part of Ukraine only, or the Russian occupied area?

I think I know the answer. It will be for the non-Russian occupied part of Ukraine (sorry Ukraine, we can't evict Russia), and Ukraine are being coerced into signing the contract, before the borders are agreed.

Christ almighty.

The NYT article says, US demands 50% of all revenues from rare earth minerals, ports, oil and gas from Ukraine controlled territory and the US demands 66% of all revenues from any territory currently under Russian rule, if Ukraine gets it back and the east is full of such mineral resources.

Its economic rape and the most flagrant opportunism to profit from a victim, I think I've ever witnessed

Triggaaar · 2025-02-22T20:28:56+0000

peterward said:
Yep.

You'll pay us 500B for the 130B of aid delivered by a previous administration, to help you fight against a genoicidal invader, murdering your civilians inside your borders.

You'll also pay double the market rate for any further weapons we send, you'll get no security guarantees, no NATO, we have no plan for how to return any of your stolen territories, and we plan to rehabiliate the genocidal fascist who did this, award him large swathes of your land, put no pressure on him to concede anything at all, allow him back into G7, and try to throw out his war crimes tribunal.

How did you get a copy of the deal?

peterward · 2025-02-22T20:29:36+0000

Albion my Albion said:
Does anyone think this Russia/Ukraine war thread will be shutdown by Bozza?

Why should it be? theres no insults, just a handful of people invested in the conflict, its outcome, sharing their perspectives and/or outrage as events play out.

Its more tame than the match day thread when we lost 7-0 to Forest!

GoldstoneVintage · 2025-02-22T20:30:54+0000

So we know why Trump would do this, as he's an utter shit stain on humanity. What's confusing me is why Ukraine would agree to it!

Eric the meek · 2025-02-22T20:31:39+0000

peterward said:
The NYT article says, US demands 50% of all revenues from rare earth minerals, ports, oil and gas from Ukraine controlled territory and the US demands 66% of all revenues from any territory currently under Russian rule, if Ukraine gets it back and the east is full of such mineral resources.

Its economic rape and the most flagrant opportunism to profit from a victim, I think I've ever witnessed

The peace is turning out to be almost as bad as the war. Utterly, and unutterably, shameful.

This will be a stain on America for generations.

Triggaaar · 2025-02-22T20:32:59+0000

Eric the meek said:
The contract is with the post-war borders undecided. Russia won't give up the territories.

Is the contract for the whole of Ukraine, the non-Russian occupied part of Ukraine only, or the Russian occupied area?

It says in it that it's for the whole of Ukraine, and not just for metals, but for oil and gas. Anything inside the Russian controlled area the US get more money.

It's just daft.

Ukraine need to be strong. Maybe highlight that they don't understand whose side the US is on. If the US in on Russia's side, why is the US offering Ukraine a deal? If it's on Ukraine's side, why is it claiming that Russia aren't the aggressor, and labelling Zelenskyy a dictator?

I think they should either put off signing a deal, or get the deal changed, or sign it with no intention of honouring it.

Triggaaar · 2025-02-22T20:33:30+0000

Albion my Albion said:
Does anyone think this Russia/Ukraine war thread will be shutdown by Bozza?

No

Happy Exile · 2025-02-22T20:37:41+0000

GoldstoneVintage said:
So we know why Trump would do this, as he's an utter shit stain on humanity. What's confusing me is why Ukraine would agree to it!

Because they have been threatened with losing access to Elon Musk’s Starlink if they don’t, and without that they’ll struggle to defend as effectively as they have done and Russia will have a huge advantage. Blackmailed into an impossible position.

peterward · 2025-02-22T20:38:51+0000

GoldstoneVintage said:
So we know why Trump would do this, as he's an utter shit stain on humanity. What's confusing me is why Ukraine would agree to it!

They absolutely shouldnt, or at least not under pressure right now.

Maybe they can negotiate better terms over a longer period and for sure get iron clad agreement on what this fund will provide to Ukraine, and to get clear security guarantees too.

And whilst the US portrays Ukraine as helpless and without any cards and absolutely have to sign this...... Its also true that Trump will not want to be seen to fail at getting a deal or as the man who allowed Russia to destroy Ukraine and to have most of his European allies lose faith in him, as they are primarily all pro Ukraine.

If Ukraine falls after he so openly flirted with Putin, it will be on him.

Its also true, from reading, that Trump is desperate for this deal as US is heavily dependent on many of these mineral resources, which have previously come from China, and Trump wants to source non chinese supplies so he can pivot against China.

So Trump is desperate for this deal too.... and the "art of the deal" may well be calling his bluff

peterward · 2025-02-22T20:40:03+0000

Happy Exile said:
Because they have been threatened with losing access to Elon Musk’s Starlink if they don’t, and without that they’ll struggle to defend as effectively as they have done and Russia will have a huge advantage. Blackmailed into an impossible position.

The consequences of the US doing that, would be more damaging to the US imho than Ukraine in long term. Its a sick threat, but an idle threat none the less

Solid at the back · 2025-02-22T20:45:16+0000

Have these rare minerals that are on Ukraine's land only just been discovered? Why have we only started hearing about these in the last few weeks?

Fungus · 2025-02-22T20:51:13+0000

peterward said:
They absolutely shouldnt, or at least not under pressure right now.

Maybe they can negotiate better terms over a longer period and for sure get iron clad agreement on what this fund will provide to Ukraine, and to get clear security guarantees too.

And whilst the US portrays Ukraine as helpless and without any cards and absolutely have to sign this...... Its also true that Trump will not want to be seen to fail at getting a deal or as the man who allowed Russia to destroy Ukraine and to have most of his European allies lose faith in him, as they are primarily all pro Ukraine.

If Ukraine falls after he so openly flirted with Putin, it will be on him.

Its also true, from reading, that Trump is desperate for this deal as US is heavily dependent on many of these mineral resources, which have previously come from China, and Trump wants to source non chinese supplies so he can pivot against China.

So Trump is desperate for this deal too.... and the "art of the deal" may well be calling his bluff

So, if Ukraine say “no”, he’ll be stuck with whatever deal China want for their supplies?

JamesAndTheGiantHead · 2025-02-22T20:53:26+0000

peterward said:
The NYT article says, US demands 50% of all revenues from rare earth minerals, ports, oil and gas from Ukraine controlled territory and the US demands 66% of all revenues from any territory currently under Russian rule, if Ukraine gets it back and the east is full of such mineral resources.

Its economic rape and the most flagrant opportunism to profit from a victim, I think I've ever witnessed

This is a deal straight out of the Sopranos.

GoldstoneVintage · 2025-02-22T20:54:07+0000

This is more encouraging:
Draft US-Ukraine rare earth minerals deal not one President Zelensky would accept, source says

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/22/europe/rare-earth-minerals-us-ukraine-intl

peterward · 2025-02-22T20:54:53+0000

Fungus said:
So, if Ukraine say “no”, he’ll be stuck with whatever deal China want for their supplies?

I dont know what deal US has with China, I just read that US is heavily reliant on these things and has to currently rely on getting a lot of it from China and it doesnt want to as it wants to pivot away from Chinese interdependence

Ukraine has the worlds 5th largest deposits of rare earth minerals.

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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

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