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[News] Florida shooting - unbelievable



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North Carolina Supporter

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Had this conversation with my daughter recently. She despairs in that she calls it "the country that has it all" in terms of natural beauty but she simply has no urge to go because of the thought that just about every other person there is "packing heat".
Another American Paradox is the fact that while 35% of Americans own a gun… they are not all for protection nor sport- it’s not evenly distributed between handguns and hunting rifles… and with wide variation between rural and urban households. Of those that own a gun, 18% have it with them (what we call “carry”) but not constantly. So, 18% of 35% is 6.3% (if they carry their weapon all the time). My guess would be that it’s probably less than half the time- so approximately 3%. Then, I would say it’s triple that rate (~10%) in places like Texas, Alaska, Oklahoma, etc. and a fraction of that rate in other states.

Of course, the numbers that cannot be honestly discussed- especially with liberals in the US- are the staggering crimes in the Democratic-run cities where we have passed every possible law restricting guns- yet African Americans rob, rape, and murder each other at 200% to 500% the rates of whites and Asians. (I am a moderate - which may come from a Latin word meaning “hated by both sides” 😉) and I wish our politics allowed for data-driven discussions and policies- but it clearly does not)

If you are concerned about guns, it depends on where you visit in the US. There are far more guns per capita in Oklahoma than inner city Washington DC- but I can tell you which is MUCH safer- especially if your skin is black.
 
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BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,098
Another American Paradox is the fact that while 35% of Americans own a gun… they are not all for protection nor sport- it’s not evenly distributed between handguns and hunting rifles… and with wide variation between rural and urban households. Of those that own a gun, 18% have it with them (what we call “carry”) but not constantly. So, 18% of 35% is 6.3% (if they carry their weapon all the time). My guess would be that it’s probably less than half the time- so approximately 3%. Then, I would say it’s triple that rate (~10%) in places like Texas, Alaska, Oklahoma, etc. and a fraction of that rate in other states.

Of course, the numbers that cannot be honestly discussed- especially with liberals in the US- are the staggering crimes in the Democratic-run cities where we have passed every possible law restricting guns- yet African Americans rob, rape, and murder each other at 200% to 500% the rates of whites and Asians. (I am a moderate - which may come from a Latin word meaning “hated by both sides” 😉) and I wish our politics allowed for data-driven discussions and policies- but it clearly does not)

If you are concerned about guns, it depends on where you visit in the US. There are far more guns per capita in Oklahoma than inner city Washington DC- but I can tell you which is MUCH safer- especially if your skin is black.
it is interesting to observe that you lament the lack of data driven discussion while providing no referene or citation for the statistical claims you are making.
 












jimhigham

Je Suis Rhino
Apr 25, 2009
8,271
Woking
Another American Paradox is the fact that while 35% of Americans own a gun… they are not all for protection nor sport- it’s not evenly distributed between handguns and hunting rifles… and with wide variation between rural and urban households. Of those that own a gun, 18% have it with them (what we call “carry”) but not constantly. So, 18% of 35% is 6.3% (if they carry their weapon all the time). My guess would be that it’s probably less than half the time- so approximately 3%. Then, I would say it’s triple that rate (~10%) in places like Texas, Alaska, Oklahoma, etc. and a fraction of that rate in other states.

Of course, the numbers that cannot be honestly discussed- especially with liberals in the US- are the staggering crimes in the Democratic-run cities where we have passed every possible law restricting guns- yet African Americans rob, rape, and murder each other at 200% to 500% the rates of whites and Asians. (I am a moderate - which may come from a Latin word meaning “hated by both sides” 😉) and I wish our politics allowed for data-driven discussions and policies- but it clearly does not)

If you are concerned about guns, it depends on where you visit in the US. There are far more guns per capita in Oklahoma than inner city Washington DC- but I can tell you which is MUCH safer- especially if your skin is black.
I acknowledge that my remark was a sweeping generalisation and that the actual data would be far removed from every "other person". However, the simple truth is that my daughter and I don't think of guns in this country. We've never had to. The high number of firearms in the States does not entice us to visit. It's just how it is.
 


JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
6,545
Seaford
As an American who also avoids my fellow countrymen while traveling abroad, I don’t think this is limited to Brits! Question: do you also avoid travelers from the UK that differ in their political beliefs? (~50% of Americans support Trump and ~50% are opposed- so it’s hard to lump them all together politically)
I don't avoid them, no, but I do avoid talking politics
 




North Carolina Supporter

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Yes- the US has far more violent crime than other countries. However, it is almost entirely limited to certain areas- and not directly correlated to gun ownership.

The point I am attempting to make is this: gun crimes in America vary by factors of 2x to 20x depending upon these factors:
1. Your skin color
2. Where you visit (inner city vs suburbs)
3. Time of day you visit
4. What you are doing on your visit (buying drugs vs going to a restaurant)

In other words, if you are visiting DC or NYC and you are white, go to sporting events, eat at restaurants and take cabs/ubers... the odds of someone using a gun to rob or kill you is miniscule. If, however, you are black, and visit crime-ridden neighborhoods after dark, the odds of you being a victim increase by 20x. It has nothing to do with the "gun laws" because the most stringent laws are in the big cities... the old white guys with MAGA hats riding around in pick-up trucks on country roads are not committing the crimes when compared to the young black males in the cities... (personally, I do everything possible to avoid redneck MAGA as well as inner-city gangsters... but I am fortunate to have the choice)

some stats:
US households "gun ownership" by state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-ownership-by-state
US gun deaths by state https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm = the states with the highest death rates are nearly all "red states" or very conservative... yet, the majority of these deaths are in their urban areas... the vast majority of these crimes are committed by family members, neighbors, or acquaintances. In other words, very few "random acts of violence" that proliferate Hollywood movies.

African Americans comprise just 13% of the US population, yet they are 54% of the homicide victims
93% of African Americans murder victims were killed by other African Americans
76% of the time, the criminal was a spouse, relative, or acquaintance "known assailant" is the term the FBI uses
In other words, "Black on Black" crime in US urban areas comprises the vast majority of gun violence in the USA. It is not safe to go to Harlem after dark- or parts of Atlanta, DC, Philly, LA, Chicago, Houston, etc. etc. etc. - but it is very safe when you avoid these areas.

~55% of murderers in the US are Black- the vast majority of whom are male and come from a single-parent household. THAT is the greatest determinant that should be addressed...

some citations:
 


Steve78

Active member
Jan 21, 2025
54
I’m off to USA soon so I’m pleased to get some actual factual info that reassures me I’m unlikely to be a victim !
 






FamilyGuy

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
2,586
Crawley
That's a bit of an extreme measure to avoid going to somewhere you (presumably) wanted to go, isn't it? We went to Mexico last May – to a resort full of Americans – and we managed to either not engage with them or, when we did, not talk about politics. If nothing else, it's all so facking BORING. And pointless getting into random conversations with strangers. Or maybe I'm just a miserable bugger :lolol:
I was simply going on my/our experiences in the past few years. It may yet be that the lure of the Carribean outweighs the fear of the loudmouth.
 


FamilyGuy

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
2,586
Crawley
As an American who also avoids my fellow countrymen while traveling abroad, I don’t think this is limited to Brits! Question: do you also avoid travelers from the UK that differ in their political beliefs? (~50% of Americans support Trump and ~50% are opposed- so it’s hard to lump them all together politically)
I do not avoid Brits that differ in their political beliefs - I have friends from all across the British political spectrum and we get on famously.

I do avoid "fanatics and idiots" (political or otherwise) at all costs.
 


darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,912
Sittingbourne, Kent
Yes- the US has far more violent crime than other countries. However, it is almost entirely limited to certain areas- and not directly correlated to gun ownership.

The point I am attempting to make is this: gun crimes in America vary by factors of 2x to 20x depending upon these factors:
1. Your skin color
2. Where you visit (inner city vs suburbs)
3. Time of day you visit
4. What you are doing on your visit (buying drugs vs going to a restaurant)

In other words, if you are visiting DC or NYC and you are white, go to sporting events, eat at restaurants and take cabs/ubers... the odds of someone using a gun to rob or kill you is miniscule. If, however, you are black, and visit crime-ridden neighborhoods after dark, the odds of you being a victim increase by 20x. It has nothing to do with the "gun laws" because the most stringent laws are in the big cities... the old white guys with MAGA hats riding around in pick-up trucks on country roads are not committing the crimes when compared to the young black males in the cities... (personally, I do everything possible to avoid redneck MAGA as well as inner-city gangsters... but I am fortunate to have the choice)

some stats:
US households "gun ownership" by state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-ownership-by-state
US gun deaths by state https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm = the states with the highest death rates are nearly all "red states" or very conservative... yet, the majority of these deaths are in their urban areas... the vast majority of these crimes are committed by family members, neighbors, or acquaintances. In other words, very few "random acts of violence" that proliferate Hollywood movies.

African Americans comprise just 13% of the US population, yet they are 54% of the homicide victims
93% of African Americans murder victims were killed by other African Americans
76% of the time, the criminal was a spouse, relative, or acquaintance "known assailant" is the term the FBI uses
In other words, "Black on Black" crime in US urban areas comprises the vast majority of gun violence in the USA. It is not safe to go to Harlem after dark- or parts of Atlanta, DC, Philly, LA, Chicago, Houston, etc. etc. etc. - but it is very safe when you avoid these areas.

~55% of murderers in the US are Black- the vast majority of whom are male and come from a single-parent household. THAT is the greatest determinant that should be addressed...

some citations:
You sound a bit like one our old school judges who told young girls who went out in short skirts that they invited rape!

Lots of figures but no reasoning behind WHY?
 




A1X

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Sep 1, 2017
21,668
Deepest, darkest Sussex
IMG_0567.jpeg
 


North Carolina Supporter

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50/50 odds aint that tempting if there are loads of you lot about.

especially when a fair chunk of your 50% sensibly claim to be Canadian.
I feel for the Canadiens - I’ve actually seen them flash their passports as if to let everyone know “I’m not American” … I wish I could do the same sometimes… sadly, I’m left defending the minority of fellow Americans that are not “loud and proud” - or just a-holes
 


North Carolina Supporter

American Seagull
NSC Patron
You sound a bit like one our old school judges who told young girls who went out in short skirts that they invited rape!

Lots of figures but no reasoning behind WHY?
Apologies, I believe WHY there are more gun crimes in the US is due to the combination of their availability for people that otherwise may utilize a knife of some other (less deadly) weapon. But my point is that guns are not evenly distributed across the country- nor are the people most likely to use them. When you combine the two elements, high crime. But the prevalence varies tremendously.
 






Grassman

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2008
2,653
Tun Wells
Yes a violent racist Jewish man wanted to kill Palestinians but instead injured two genocide supporting Israelis.
I believe that this is now "an unfortunate incident" caused by "a background of rabid antisemitism".
Satire is dead.
So because they’re Israeli tourists they’re “genocide supporting..” are they? Yeah, you’re right, satire is f*cking dead. Idiot.
 




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