Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Albion] Was forcing Sanchez out the worst decision our club has made in years?



Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,043
I view him in much the same way as Aaron Ramsdale. A good, solid, mid-to lower end goalkeeper who got promoted too high in the league where their lack of concentration isn't tolerated.

In terms of replacing Sanchez, they already have EIGHT first-team goalkeepers on their books, Sanchez, Djordje Petrovic, Mike Penders, Kepa Arrizabalaga, Marcus Bettinelli, Lucas Bergstrom, Eddie Beach and Filip Jorgensen. They spent £40 on GKs in the summer
Yeh. I know how many keepers Chelsea have got. But Sanchez is the one they are playing, which means they think he's the best they have. And he's nowhere near good enough for a club trying to get UCL football. Which means they will try to get a replacement ASAP
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
12,729
Or it could be more than a chip. A conventional long high ball aimed at Welbeck. We've got 4 forwards up there. Just occasionally is what i'm saying. I see Verbruggen as way too ponderous and predictable for the short and mid range game. Steele on the other hand is very good at it
Really?

I think Verbruggen goes long, way too often already.
It's pretty much a 50/50 shot at retaining possession and Verbruggen's kicking is nowhere near as accurate as Steele's was.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,043
Really?

I think Verbruggen goes long, way too often already.
It's pretty much a 50/50 shot at retaining possession and Verbruggen's kicking is nowhere near as accurate as Steele's was.
I guess the thing about going long, is the opposition are onto us with Verbruggen's passing into midfield. They know if you can block off the lanes to the full backs, Verbruggen will likely try to find a central midfielder and the trap is sprung. It could be a goal or (a pen) in one simple pass.

With going long, yes we're more likely to lose the ball, but the danger of conceding straight away is nullified and who knows me might manage to play in a winger to get an attack going ourselves

I appreciate i'm in a minority here, but I think Steele is right now the better keeper and should be be playing. He's basically as secure as they come with those balls into midfield and the chipped pass to the full back on the touchline. I just think we could play much more they way the manager wants to play with him in the team. I totally see the logic behind backing Verbruggen as the coming player, but if we're doing so, I feel we should be adjusting to his hide his weaknesses. I don't think that at any time in his career he'll be especially good with his feet. There's every reason to believe he'll be an excellent shot stopper in years to come
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,676
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Verbruggen, Ayari and Baleba all contributed to that goal being conceded.

Comparing Verbruggen's contribution to that of Sanchez where his clown antics meant he dropped the ball rather than the easy decision of just putting his fist through it makes me feel you have an agenda against Verbruggen. He was nowhere near as culpable as the error Sanchez made.
It was more a throwaway response to someone bouncing this old thread just to have a dig at Sanchez. I like Bart. I don't think he's as good as Sanchez but that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, and there is a lot to like about Bart who will keep improving.
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,676
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Really?

I think Verbruggen goes long, way too often already.
It's pretty much a 50/50 shot at retaining possession and Verbruggen's kicking is nowhere near as accurate as Steele's was.
It might be a 50-50 shot at retaining possession, but on the 50% of times that we do, we have the ball in the opposition half and often with a lot of the opposition behind us rather than the whole team sitting in a block. When we pass out from the back we haven't (yet) perfected the art of passing the ball quickly through the midfield liked we used to do in the heady days of Caicedo/Mac/Gross/Lallana, so it doesn't have the same impact. Personally I just like the variety of mixing it up.
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
12,729
I guess the thing about going long, is the opposition are onto us with Verbruggen's passing into midfield. They know if you can block off the lanes to the full backs, Verbruggen will likely try to find a central midfielder and the trap is sprung. It could be a goal or (a pen) in one simple pass.

With going long, yes we're more likely to lose the ball, but the danger of conceding straight away is nullified and who knows me might manage to play in a winger to get an attack going ourselves

I appreciate i'm in a minority here, but I think Steele is right now the better keeper and should be be playing. He's basically as secure as they come with those balls into midfield and the chipped pass to the full back on the touchline. I just think we could play much more they way the manager wants to play with him in the team. I totally see the logic behind backing Verbruggen as the coming player, but if we're doing so, I feel we should be adjusting to his hide his weaknesses. I don't think that at any time in his career he'll be especially good with his feet. There's every reason to believe he'll be an excellent shot stopper in years to come

Verbruggen's long passes just aren't good enough or infrequent enough to catch the opposition out.

His stats for this season:
Long passes attempted 272/687 (39.5%)​
Successful long passes 121/272 ( 44%)​
Short passes attempted 415/687 (60.5%)​
Successful short passes 409/415 (98.5%)​

Long passes where we give the ball back to the opposition, is too frequent.

I agree, Steele is miles better on the ball than Verbruggen.
When Steele went long it was because he stood a chance of catching the opposition out, and he hit the passes better.
But Steele is probably one of the top 5 keeper's in the division with his feet.
Unfortunately with less cover in front of him, just not good enough as a keeper, IMO.

Steele was ideal for de Zerbi, much less so for Fab.

Bart's definitely the future and will need to learn from his mistakes.
 


jordanseagull

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
4,171
Verbruggen's long passes just aren't good enough or infrequent enough to catch the opposition out.

His stats for this season:
Long passes attempted 272/687 (39.5%)​
Successful long passes 121/272 ( 44%)​
Short passes attempted 415/687 (60.5%)​
Successful short passes 409/415 (98.5%)​

Long passes where we give the ball back to the opposition, is too frequent.

I agree, Steele is miles better on the ball than Verbruggen.
When Steele went long it was because he stood a chance of catching the opposition out, and he hit the passes better.
But Steele is probably one of the top 5 keeper's in the division with his feet.
Unfortunately with less cover in front of him, just not good enough as a keeper, IMO.

Steele was ideal for de Zerbi, much less so for Fab.

Bart's definitely the future and will need to learn from his mistakes.
The issue is the often massive impact that those 1.5% of failed short passes have.
 


Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
3,599
Yeh. I know how many keepers Chelsea have got. But Sanchez is the one they are playing, which means they think he's the best they have. And he's nowhere near good enough for a club trying to get UCL football. Which means they will try to get a replacement ASAP
This makes no sense.

We finished 6th with Sanchez being in goal for the majority of the season. If you add £3bn worth of signings to that Brighton team, we may well have finished 4th. We might actually have finished 4th if we had kept Sanchez in goal since we got (slightly) better results with him than without him.

If we can finish 6th with Sanchez in goal, Chelsea can finish 4th or better with Sanchez in goal. Its fairly obvious to me.
 






AstroSloth

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2020
1,556
You can find the highlights of the ManU game somewhere.
Oh you're talking about the penalty, the one where Ayari demands the ball but doesn't move towards the pass? That's not a Verbruggen mistake it's more on Ayari.
Sels, Sanchez, Kepa, Allison, Flekken, Pope, Raya, Pickford are the keepers with a save percentage >70% this season, looks a pretty spot on metric for keeper quality this season.
Save percentage counts a worldie save the same as a dribbled effort from 45 yards straight at the keeper, it doesn't take into account how good the save actually was.
But what metric would you prefer we look at?
If you look at Post Shot xG prevented per 90 you get a better understanding of how good a goalkeeper is at shot stopping. Sanchez is much lower in this category but still slightly above Verbruggen.

1737479703711.png
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,043
This makes no sense.

We finished 6th with Sanchez being in goal for the majority of the season. If you add £3bn worth of signings to that Brighton team, we may well have finished 4th. We might actually have finished 4th if we had kept Sanchez in goal since we got (slightly) better results with him than without him.

If we can finish 6th with Sanchez in goal, Chelsea can finish 4th or better with Sanchez in goal. Its fairly obvious to me.
Well, times change.

Near enough every Chelsea fan wants him replaced. They will get their wish in the summer
 




AstroSloth

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2020
1,556
Not a bad one either. Clubs generally value goalkeepers who saves shots. Thats one of the main reasons why Robert Sanchez is the starting goalie in a top 4 team.

I'm guessing he'd like a metric showing the superiority of Jason Steele, so maybe "short passes completed".
You're incredibly wrong, I don't think we should have been playing Steele last season as we should have had Verbruggen developing.

Or his low PSxG (difficulty of the opponents shot), despite it being a normal consequence of a goalkeeper who collects more crosses and rushes out of the penalty box more than everyone else. It looks funny the one in ten times it doesn't work and it prevents a 1on1 the other 9 times.

Sanchez collects crosses and picks up opponents through balls so they don't get many good opportunities, resulting in his low PSxG, as is usually the case for proactive keepers compared to line goalies.
As you can see from the below table, Sanchez and Verbruggen have faced a fairly similar PSxG, so this point about collecting crosses doesn't indicate a massive difference in shots faced.

From my other coment:
For shot stopping, save percentage doesn't take into account the difficulty of shots saved, it counts a worldie the same as any other shot, from my other reply:If you look at Post Shot xG prevented per 90 you get a better understanding of how good a goalkeeper is at shot stopping. Sanchez is much lower in this category but still slightly above Verbruggen.

1737479703711.png
Sanchez has made the second most mistakes leading to goals in the league, behind only Muric. Verbruggen has made one less mistake leading to goals.

Verbruggen is also 5 years younger than Sanchez, he's without doubt going to be a better goalkeeper.
 


Lifelong Supporter

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2009
2,125
Burgess Hill
Oh you're talking about the penalty, the one where Ayari demands the ball but doesn't move towards the pass? That's not a Verbruggen mistake it's more on Ayari.

Save percentage counts a worldie save the same as a dribbled effort from 45 yards straight at the keeper, it doesn't take into account how good the save actually was.

If you look at Post Shot xG prevented per 90 you get a better understanding of how good a goalkeeper is at shot stopping. Sanchez is much lower in this category but still slightly above Verbruggen.

View attachment 195499
What is also perhaps interesting in this table is how low Martinez is. I thought he was thought of as 'world class'!
 


Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
3,599
You're incredibly wrong, I don't think we should have been playing Steele last season as we should have had Verbruggen developing.


As you can see from the below table, Sanchez and Verbruggen have faced a fairly similar PSxG, so this point about collecting crosses doesn't indicate a massive difference in shots faced.

From my other coment:

Sanchez has made the second most mistakes leading to goals in the league, behind only Muric. Verbruggen has made one less mistake leading to goals.

Verbruggen is also 5 years younger than Sanchez, he's without doubt going to be a better goalkeeper.
Mistakes happen more often when you're a proactive goalkeeper coming out for crosses and through balls. Fans were fuming all over him for failing to pick that cross against Palace when the vast majority of our goalkeepers in the last five years would have stood on the line praying for someone else to fix the problem. Then there's no mistake if the ball goes in because the goalie didn't even try.

Who cares if Verbruggen is great in five years? He won't be playing for us.

Robert Sanchez had a connection to the club. Adopted, insecure kid running around looking for trouble in Levante was saved by us and repeatedly expressed his gratefulness for us helping him in all sorts of ways and becoming a family to him.

EVEN the f***ing manager who put him on the bench for one reason or another (populism or valuing Steele's short passing, don't care which bullshit reason it was) from day one until the very end couldn't stop praising Robert Sanchez attitude and skills. He repeatedly said the decision was ONLY because Robert wouldn't play the way RDZ wanted. Not that people wanted to listen to that part, RDZs speaking about Sanchez negative sides (style of play) at all made the entire fanbase hate the player/person by default.

If we had treated this guy well and given him the security and backing when in rough times rather than throw him under the bus as quickly as we could, we may well have had top goalkeeper, who really seems to love/have loved Brighton, for the next 10 years. But we binned him because Robert wanted to play like he could rather than how RDZ wanted him to.

Its just so f***ing unnecessary. Bart Verbruggen is a cash cow. He's not even suited to play our football. He wants to be glued to the line in a team that wants to play a high backline. Most likely one of Beadle or Rushworth will be our goalkeeper next season. Hopefully we don't chase them away as it helps a team a lot to not have to recreate that goalkeeper-defense trust every new season.
 






Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,676
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Because Ayari was demanding the ball there and didn't react to the player around him.

It wasn't a Verbruggen mistake.
Watch the highlights again. Ayari demands the ball but Verbruggen doesn't pass it. He looks elsewhere and then plays the pass when Ayari isn't expecting it. It's not a massive error on Barts part, but it was a hospital pass to Ayari.
 


Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here